IUCrazy2 Posted December 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 8 hours ago, 5fouls said: If you're looking for something to do with all that money that used to go to IU, I have some alimony payments you can contribute to. IU doesn't miss the pittance they got from me, but it was kind of the principle of it all. I truly do wonder how long this NIL stuff is supportable in its current incarnation. I don't believe that the players are truly worth what they are demanding right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 9 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: I don't believe that the players are truly worth what they are demanding right now. What are they "demanding?" A right to not let others profit off of their name, image, or likeness without getting a piece of it? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyhoosier29 Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 38 minutes ago, IUFLA said: What are they "demanding?" A right to not let others profit off of their name, image, or likeness without getting a piece of it? They do get a piece of it. Think some don’t agree they should get more than what they already are. Topic has been beaten like a dead horse, so no sense on rehashing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 56 minutes ago, IUFLA said: What are they "demanding?" A right to not let others profit off of their name, image, or likeness without getting a piece of it? We all know they were already getting the piece of the pie. I equate college basketball to as an internship and a lot of those don't get paid at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 20 minutes ago, kyhoosier29 said: They do get a piece of it. Think some don’t agree they should get more than what they already are. Topic has been beaten like a dead horse, so no sense on rehashing. 2 minutes ago, IU Scott said: We all know they were already getting the piece of the pie. I equate college basketball to as an internship and a lot of those don't get paid at all. Yes, I know...And I was just pointing out that it's only fair... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 1 hour ago, IUCrazy2 said: IU doesn't miss the pittance they got from me, but it was kind of the principle of it all. I truly do wonder how long this NIL stuff is supportable in its current incarnation. I don't believe that the players are truly worth what they are demanding right now. 1 hour ago, IUFLA said: What are they "demanding?" A right to not let others profit off of their name, image, or likeness without getting a piece of it? But this is where NIL went completely off the rails. If a university is selling jerseys with a players name, the players should get a cut of the proceeds (probably should have gone into a trust until they leave, but too late for that). If Olivia Dunne wants to be a TikTock influencer and trade off her name and "cough, cough" image, let her do that. But forming consortiums or having third parties engage in cash bidding wars to attract or retain players (though they can't say that) really has nothing to do with name, image and likeness. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 1 minute ago, 13th&Jackson said: But this is where NIL went completely off the rails. If a university is selling jerseys with a players name, the players should get a cut of the proceeds (probably should have gone into a trust until they leave, but too late for that). If Olivia Dunne wants to be a TikTock influencer and trade off her name and "cough, cough" image, let her do that. But forming consortiums or having third parties engage in cash bidding wars to attract or retain players (though they can't say that) really has nothing to do with name, image and likeness. Beyond the Miami/Pack saga (that the PUkes are still whining about) have we really seen nay "bidding wars?" And even then, the guy that made the play for Pack he'd be more prudent about how he spent his money... I don't see the issue with consortiums...Someone wants an athlete to attend a function to increase attendance, what's the issue? I think it gets more sticky when you start talking about directly paying athletes because of TV revenue...Lots to work out there, in my opinion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted December 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 1 hour ago, IUFLA said: What are they "demanding?" A right to not let others profit off of their name, image, or likeness without getting a piece of it? Please. The money they are getting right now has zero to do with their name, image, and likeness. This is almost entirely pay to play. There are some instances that are not, but the vast majority is pay to play. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 4 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Beyond the Miami/Pack saga (that the PUkes are still whining about) have we really seen nay "bidding wars?" And even then, the guy that made the play for Pack he'd be more prudent about how he spent his money... I don't see the issue with consortiums...Someone wants an athlete to attend a function to increase attendance, what's the issue? I think it gets more sticky when you start talking about directly paying athletes because of TV revenue...Lots to work out there, in my opinion... (Dasan) McCullough, according to sources, had a number in mind. He wanted $300,000 up front, and another $5,000 per month in spending cash for the year. Hoosiers For Good, an Indiana NIL collective, had discussions with McCullough and his father and said they could give $100,000 and work on the rest. That wasn't enough. According to Tyler Harris, executive director of Hoosiers For Good, he explained to them that because HFG was a 501(c)3 non-profit, anything over $100,000 raised eyebrows, but there were other approaches they could take. Hoosiers Connect, another Indiana collective, added another $100,000. Others involved in the talks said they told the McCulloughs that they would need time to raise other funds, None of this had anything to do with McCullough's name, image or likeness. The charity thing is a farce. It's just cover. Would be much better if the donor money went directly to those who need it rather than paying a player $360k to make a couple appearances at the Boys & Girls Club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said: (Dasan) McCullough, according to sources, had a number in mind. He wanted $300,000 up front, and another $5,000 per month in spending cash for the year. Hoosiers For Good, an Indiana NIL collective, had discussions with McCullough and his father and said they could give $100,000 and work on the rest. That wasn't enough. According to Tyler Harris, executive director of Hoosiers For Good, he explained to them that because HFG was a 501(c)3 non-profit, anything over $100,000 raised eyebrows, but there were other approaches they could take. Hoosiers Connect, another Indiana collective, added another $100,000. Others involved in the talks said they told the McCulloughs that they would need time to raise other funds, None of this had anything to do with McCullough's name, image or likeness. The charity thing is a farce. It's just cover. Would be much better if the donor money went directly to those who need it rather than paying a player $360k to make a couple appearances at the Boys & Girls Club. Can you include a link so I can get full context? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 Just now, IUFLA said: Can you include a link so I can get full context? https://www.si.com/college/indiana/football/prized-recruit-dasan-mccullough-walked-but-indiana-coming-up-short-on-nil-money-not-only-reason-why Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted December 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said: (Dasan) McCullough, according to sources, had a number in mind. He wanted $300,000 up front, and another $5,000 per month in spending cash for the year. Hoosiers For Good, an Indiana NIL collective, had discussions with McCullough and his father and said they could give $100,000 and work on the rest. That wasn't enough. According to Tyler Harris, executive director of Hoosiers For Good, he explained to them that because HFG was a 501(c)3 non-profit, anything over $100,000 raised eyebrows, but there were other approaches they could take. Hoosiers Connect, another Indiana collective, added another $100,000. Others involved in the talks said they told the McCulloughs that they would need time to raise other funds, None of this had anything to do with McCullough's name, image or likeness. The charity thing is a farce. It's just cover. Would be much better if the donor money went directly to those who need it rather than paying a player $360k to make a couple appearances at the Boys & Girls Club. Exactly. It is "Hoosiers for Good" money in the players pockets. McCullouhh looked like a promising young player, but there is no way that kid could pull $600,000 on his NIL. You could ask 10 people in this state who he was and be lucky if even one of them knew. "The Universities make money off us." To an extent, yes. However, you aren't truly the product. The Universities are. They pay you with your scholarship and stipends. HFG is stealing money from underprivileged people and putting it in the pockets of some of the most privileged individuals on the planet. That $200k is much better going directly to the Boys and Girls Club if you are really looking to do good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said: https://www.si.com/college/indiana/football/prized-recruit-dasan-mccullough-walked-but-indiana-coming-up-short-on-nil-money-not-only-reason-why "But there were plenty of football issues as well that McCullough was concerned about, so the NIL talks in early December weren't the be all, end all. It was just part of his checklist for any school, a source said, ''and the NIL stuff was important, but not a priority. It was nowhere near the top of his list, but it was on his list.'' "We want to do it the right away. That's always going to be the first rule at Indiana,'' Harris said during an interview. "I've known Coach Allen for a long time, and we are close personally, but we avoid specific NIL talks. There is never a time where Tom could say 'this player gets this much.' Those conversations never happen. They can't; it's the rules." "NIL money that goes to players all comes with a commitment of some kind. There are no free handouts, Harris said. Fund-raising has become a key component, of course, because they can do more with more money. For football, for basketball, for other sports as well. "Some donations are sports specific, but the large majority of our donations come in where we can be flexible with various sports,'' Harris said. "With football, for instance, every donation earmarked for that sport, they want to help, and we provide our two cents on where that money should go.'' Harris said there is no communication with recruits, because that's against the rules. They can't discuss specific options ''until they are enrolled or attending classes,'' Harris said. When recruits ask coaches, Harris said all they can do it tell the recruits about deals that current players have. No deals get done behind the scenes, he said, because that would be an NCAA violation. "We're Indiana, and we care about those kind of things,'' Harris said. "Some fans may hate this, some love it. We don't have those conversations that some other schools might have, because maybe they did those things under the table before. At IU, we've never done that.'' One source close to McCullough said that this transfer ''was a lot more about football than it was NIL. He knew he would have opportunities no matter where he went. I think, to be honest, so much has changed in the last two years at Indiana, with his mom and dad being gone now, and his brothers gone and the team struggling. The whole article supplies a little more context,,,I appreciate you posting that... And I still don't see anything unsavory about it...Our kids attend functions for causes that interest them, and they get paid...Nothing wrong with that in my eyes... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted December 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 12 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said: https://www.si.com/college/indiana/football/prized-recruit-dasan-mccullough-walked-but-indiana-coming-up-short-on-nil-money-not-only-reason-why I don't know how anyone could be cool with any of that to be honest. We are part of the problem by watching (which I do much less of then I did when I was younger) but college athletics really should be shut down if this is where it is going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 Just now, IUFLA said: "But there were plenty of football issues as well that McCullough was concerned about, so the NIL talks in early December weren't the be all, end all. It was just part of his checklist for any school, a source said, ''and the NIL stuff was important, but not a priority. It was nowhere near the top of his list, but it was on his list.'' "We want to do it the right away. That's always going to be the first rule at Indiana,'' Harris said during an interview. "I've known Coach Allen for a long time, and we are close personally, but we avoid specific NIL talks. There is never a time where Tom could say 'this player gets this much.' Those conversations never happen. They can't; it's the rules." "NIL money that goes to players all comes with a commitment of some kind. There are no free handouts, Harris said. Fund-raising has become a key component, of course, because they can do more with more money. For football, for basketball, for other sports as well. "Some donations are sports specific, but the large majority of our donations come in where we can be flexible with various sports,'' Harris said. "With football, for instance, every donation earmarked for that sport, they want to help, and we provide our two cents on where that money should go.'' Harris said there is no communication with recruits, because that's against the rules. They can't discuss specific options ''until they are enrolled or attending classes,'' Harris said. When recruits ask coaches, Harris said all they can do it tell the recruits about deals that current players have. No deals get done behind the scenes, he said, because that would be an NCAA violation. "We're Indiana, and we care about those kind of things,'' Harris said. "Some fans may hate this, some love it. We don't have those conversations that some other schools might have, because maybe they did those things under the table before. At IU, we've never done that.'' One source close to McCullough said that this transfer ''was a lot more about football than it was NIL. He knew he would have opportunities no matter where he went. I think, to be honest, so much has changed in the last two years at Indiana, with his mom and dad being gone now, and his brothers gone and the team struggling. The whole article supplies a little more context,,,I appreciate you posting that... And I still don't see anything unsavory about it...Our kids attend functions for causes that interest them, and they get paid...Nothing wrong with that in my eyes... Never suggested that IU wasn't being above board or that this was the only reason he left. If I had a chance to play at OK over the current mess that is IU football, that's an easy call. Just saying that this is all about trying to pay a player to stay rather than compensating him for trading off his name, image or likeness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 10 hours ago, IUCrazy2 said: Flipping Geology buildings is (one of) the points of Indiana University, not guys who can throw a ball through a metal hoop. If the basketball arenas went away tomorrow, the world would move along just fine. If we lost all the academic buildings in the world, it would have a deleterious impact on society. I have stopped giving to Indiana. I don't even get the extra $40 or whatever license plate anymore. They overcharge students, make money hand over fist, then come back begging for money. And now they want me to kick in extra money so that we can field a team that wilts in way too many games that mean anything. I have to donate for the players. I have to pay extra for the privelege to watch on TV. I have to pay scalpers a buttload to get good seats live against any team with a pulse. If I don't want to do that, I have to donate for the privelege to buy season tickets. HFG can kiss my @$$ coming with their hands out to pay these kids hundreds of thousands of dollars to get beat by 20 points at Kansas. College ball has become a vastly inferior product to the NBA anymore. The main teams don't run any interesting systems anymore. It is all the same junk. And the players may be athletic and look like body builders but most of them kind of suck at actually playing the game. 40 minute games of 38% shooting where the final score is 68 to 59 is not exactly exciting. The ONLY reason we pay it as much attention as we do anymore is because most of us grew up in the Knight era or the shadow of it. OK. I agree. I've said countless times I will never give cash to NIL,a total joke, especially when the university raking in over 100 million a year. Do you want good IU teams? Because right now, until this system is destroyed, it's an arms race. So yes, Geology buildings with athletic revenue is a waste. Alabama had a huge influx of academic interest when they started winning Championships. Even Butler's applicants went up considerably by going to a few final fours. Successful athletics translates to academics. This is a proven fact. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 6 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: "The Universities make money off us." To an extent, yes. However, you aren't truly the product. So if I buy a Jalen Hood-Schifino/IU player Tee, he shouldn't get any of it? They're not the WHOLE product, but they deserve a cut...Think how you'd feel if you saw an exact likeness of you on an NCAA video game and you got zip for it...I'm sure you'd feel that you should get some money when people are making millions off it A little birdie told me I was getting one for Christmas...Already have TJD 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 These collectives that are being set up are being done to give direct payment to players in exchange for some token use of their name. It is not being done in the spirit of what NIL was intended to be. Hoosier For Good also has federal tax exempt status. From what I understand HFG pools money to pay players then the players do some work for a charity connected to HFG. I saw this article yesterday and it's a great example of what NIL was meant for. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.abcactionnews.com/news/region-hillsborough/4-usf-offensive-linemen-sign-marketing-deals-with-hooters%3f_amp=true "As part of the deal, the offensive linemen will visit Hooters locations and "have starring roles across social media, encouraging fans to make Hooters their gameday destination or to pick up wings and other Hooters favorites for tailgate and viewing parties." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said: These collectives that are being set up are being done to give direct payment to players in exchange for some token use of their name. It is not being done in the spirit of what NIL was intended to be. Hoosier For Good also has federal tax exempt status. From what I understand HFG pools money to pay players then the players do some work for a charity connected to HFG. I saw this article yesterday and it's a great example of what NIL was meant for. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.abcactionnews.com/news/region-hillsborough/4-usf-offensive-linemen-sign-marketing-deals-with-hooters%3f_amp=true "As part of the deal, the offensive linemen will visit Hooters locations and "have starring roles across social media, encouraging fans to make Hooters their gameday destination or to pick up wings and other Hooters favorites for tailgate and viewing parties." I like that they are doing this with O linemen instead of "skill" position players, but ultimately you'll have D linemen, linebackers, D backs etc, saying "where's my deal?" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted December 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 1 minute ago, IUFLA said: So if I buy a Jalen Hood-Schifino/IU player Tee, he shouldn't get any of it? They're not the WHOLE product, but they deserve a cut...Think how you'd feel if you saw an exact likeness of you on an NCAA video game and you got zip for it...I'm sure you'd feel that you should get some money when people are making millions off it A little birdie told me I was getting one for Christmas...Already have TJD Sure, do that. That isn't what is happening though and you and I both know it. The NCAA video games went away like 15 years ago. Why? Because it wasn't worth paying the players. https://www.nitrocollege.com/hs-fs/hubfs/Student-Debt-Statistics_Asset_3 (1).png?width=800&name=Student-Debt-Statistics_Asset_3 (1).png This is why I am against all of this. The athletes are already the most coddled people on campus. At many of these schools (Not IU) the students have to pay a fee to support athletics. They have their own tutors. Their own special dining options. They get access to their own training facilities that are constantly upgraded for millions of dollars. Meanwhile, the US population has accumulated almost $1.5 Trillion in student loan debt. Then these people come back out with their hand out and expect even more money from the same people who accumulated that debt. No thanks. Go be pros. There is maybe one guy on the team right now who could pull a multiple six figure salary as a pro in Europe. One. There isn't one football player on the team who could pull that money as a pro. College football without the colleges attached is the XFL, nobody cares. Indiana is "doing it the right way" with their 501(c)3 but we all know the vast majority are not. The 80,000 new IRS agents should focus in on all of this nonsense and fraud and people should go to jail. The shoe stuff has nothing on what is going on right now out in the open. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said: I like that they are doing this with O linemen instead of "skill" position players, but ultimately you'll have D linemen, linebackers, D backs etc, saying "where's my deal?" That's part of the point with NIL. It's up to those other guys to go out and get a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 1 minute ago, mrflynn03 said: That's part of the point with NIL. It's up to those other guys to go out and get a deal. I think that's what Hoosier Connect is for... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 7 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: Sure, do that. That isn't what is happening though and you and I both know it. The NCAA video games went away like 15 years ago. Why? Because it wasn't worth paying the players. https://www.nitrocollege.com/hs-fs/hubfs/Student-Debt-Statistics_Asset_3 (1).png?width=800&name=Student-Debt-Statistics_Asset_3 (1).png This is why I am against all of this. The athletes are already the most coddled people on campus. At many of these schools (Not IU) the students have to pay a fee to support athletics. They have their own tutors. Their own special dining options. They get access to their own training facilities that are constantly upgraded for millions of dollars. Meanwhile, the US population has accumulated almost $1.5 Trillion in student loan debt. Then these people come back out with their hand out and expect even more money from the same people who accumulated that debt. No thanks. Go be pros. There is maybe one guy on the team right now who could pull a multiple six figure salary as a pro in Europe. One. There isn't one football player on the team who could pull that money as a pro. College football without the colleges attached is the XFL, nobody cares. Indiana is "doing it the right way" with their 501(c)3 but we all know the vast majority are not. The 80,000 new IRS agents should focus in on all of this nonsense and fraud and people should go to jail. The shoe stuff has nothing on what is going on right now out in the open. The video game was mentioned because it brought the issue to light... Like I said, if you start talking about paying athletes directly, there are a bunch of issues to flesh out...But if you think if the kids are wrong for asking for a piece of something they DO directly affect, and that IU shouldn't help them achieve that end, I disagree... Water will eventually find its level on this...But I think IU is certainly going about it the right way so far... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 4 minutes ago, IUFLA said: I think that's what Hoosier Connect is for... Exactly, it wasn't meant for guys to sit around on their ass while people give them money. Collin is doing guys a solid by having this. The whole damn point of NIL was for companies to pay players to promote their product. Like Shaq and those icy hot commercials. Now I associate Shaq with icy hot and he doesn't even promote it anymore. But pay for play is the end goal anyway. Nibble away til you get the whole bite strategy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, IUFLA said: The video game was mentioned because it brought the issue to light... Like I said, if you start talking about paying athletes directly, there are a bunch of issues to flesh out...But if you think if the kids are wrong for asking for a piece of something they DO directly affect, and that IU shouldn't help them achieve that end, I disagree... Water will eventually find its level on this...But I think IU is certainly going about it the right way so far... The schools aren't supposed to be involved other than providing guidance though. Does HFG even donate any of the donations they receive? I'm asking because I don't know. Their website was unclear on what they do other than partner student athletes with charities to amplify awareness of those charities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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