IUCrazy2 Posted December 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 5 minutes ago, IUFLA said: The video game was mentioned because it brought the issue to light... Like I said, if you start talking about paying athletes directly, there are a bunch of issues to flesh out...But if you think if the kids are wrong for asking for a piece of something they DO directly affect, and that IU shouldn't help them achieve that end, I disagree... Water will eventually find its level on this...But I think IU is certainly going about it the right way so far... I don't have an issue with things like the T-shirts or the jersey sales (although I think if you go that route, I need a name on the back). I don't have an issue with a company set up that helps a local business hire guys to do a commercial. I don't have a problem with Adidas picking out guys like JHS and TJD to be brand ambassadors or whatever. What I have a problem with is HFG collecting millions of dollars, paying a kid $100,000 and all the kid does is show up at the Boys and Girls Club once or twice for "charity". I think that is bogus. The fact of the matter is that if you went by how it was supposed to be, you would have a whole bunch of kids upset because their true NIL is worth maybe a few hundred to a few thousand a month. TJD and JHS are the only two right now who could really command good money. Maybe Galloway since I have heard he is the ladies choice the past few years. And if you wanted to really be real, an attractive female athlete who is willing to show some skin on social media is by far the better earner no matter how good she is at her sport. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 4 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: paying a kid $100,000 and all the kid does is show up at the Boys and Girls Club once or twice for "charity". I think that is bogus. If you have solid evidence of that happening, I'd like to see it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 22 minutes ago, IUFLA said: If you have solid evidence of that happening, I'd like to see it... I found this handy website https://www.on3.com/nil/collectives/hoosiers-for-good-21/deals/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 (edited) 37 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said: The schools aren't supposed to be involved other than providing guidance though. Does HFG even donate any of the donations they receive? I'm asking because I don't know. Their website was unclear on what they do other than partner student athletes with charities to amplify awareness of those charities. I'd think if you're giving kids at that age any kind of money, they'd benefit from a LOT of guidance... Edited December 19, 2022 by IUFLA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 Here is what the HFG affiliated athletes did over the summer and fall according to HFG. This is all fine, but it seems like this is the stuff that some players did anyway before NIL, they just weren't paid for the charity appearances. https://hoosiersforgood.org/recent-hoosiers-for-good-athlete-appearances/ I was a bit surprised that there are only 25 affiliated SAs, 12 of whom are men's bball players. https://hoosiersforgood.org/our-athletes/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said: I found this handy website https://www.on3.com/nil/collectives/hoosiers-for-good-21/deals/ But that still doesn't prove any point that @IUCrazy2was trying to make...We have no idea what these kids are getting, or what they're having to do to get it... A picture on a poster nowadays can pay big...I know people in the entertainment industry with a whole lot less talent making millions off things like that... I do agree that the end game is direct pay, but you start getting into a whole new realm there, involving other sports at the institution (particularly non-revenue sports) and competitive balance... The whole idea of the NBA, NFL, or MLB draft is to attempt to provide competitive balance...You try to make college sports have what would basically become an open free agent market, what do you think will happen? One of the first things would be kids not getting to go where they want to... But, like I said, there's nothing wrong with NIL at IU as far as I'm concerned about with the factual knowledge I have right now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 7 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said: Here is what the HFG affiliated athletes did over the summer and fall according to HFG. This is all fine, but it seems like this is the stuff that some players did anyway before NIL, they just weren't paid for the charity appearances. https://hoosiersforgood.org/recent-hoosiers-for-good-athlete-appearances/ I was a bit surprised that there are only 25 affiliated SAs, 12 of whom are men's bball players. https://hoosiersforgood.org/our-athletes/ From what I read, those are commendable activities where all benefit... For me (or anybody else) to judge without figures paid if it's worth it is misguided... But I know a few people with money...they're not stupid about it...They get a return or the spigot gets turned off... And water finds its level 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 1 hour ago, IUFLA said: Beyond the Miami/Pack saga (that the PUkes are still whining about) have we really seen nay "bidding wars?" And even then, the guy that made the play for Pack he'd be more prudent about how he spent his money... I don't see the issue with consortiums...Someone wants an athlete to attend a function to increase attendance, what's the issue? I think it gets more sticky when you start talking about directly paying athletes because of TV revenue...Lots to work out there, in my opinion... Sounds like OSU football lost our on a recruit in a bidding war Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, IUFLA said: But that still doesn't prove any point that @IUCrazy2was trying to make...We have no idea what these kids are getting, or what they're having to do to get it... A picture on a poster nowadays can pay big...I know people in the entertainment industry with a whole lot less talent making millions off things like that... I do agree that the end game is direct pay, but you start getting into a whole new realm there, involving other sports at the institution (particularly non-revenue sports) and competitive balance... The whole idea of the NBA, NFL, or MLB draft is to attempt to provide competitive balance...You try to make college sports have what would basically become an open free agent market, what do you think will happen? One of the first things would be kids not getting to go where they want to... But, like I said, there's nothing wrong with NIL at IU as far as I'm concerned about with the factual knowledge I have right now... That's the best part. Because HFG organized as a 501(c)(3) they are required by law to disclose their annual financial records upon request. Including everyone's salaries. You can even go to their office during business hours and request the information and they have to show you. So sometime next year we will have access to their first annual financial statement. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 18 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said: I found this handy website https://www.on3.com/nil/collectives/hoosiers-for-good-21/deals/ I'm thrilled to see that the current CBB player with the highest NIL value is Hansel Enmanuel, the one-armed player from Northwestern St. who scored his first basket on 12/10. https://www.on3.com/nil/rankings/player/college/basketball/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hansel-emmanuel-one-armed-player-first-points-college-dunk-northwestern-state/ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Sounds like OSU football lost our on a recruit in a bidding war The bolded part is what stops me from making a judgement...Gotta have specifics, Hoss... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 16 minutes ago, IUFLA said: I'd think if you're giving kids at that age any kind of money, they'd benefit from a LOT of guidance... Oh absolutely. I don't think people go to their economics professor for financial advice like I did. Where else did I learn to turn all my cash "donations" into physical silver bullion. Sales transactions of silver or gold under $10,000 don't have a reporting requirement. 🤫 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 1 hour ago, IUFLA said: The video game was mentioned because it brought the issue to light... Like I said, if you start talking about paying athletes directly, there are a bunch of issues to flesh out...But if you think if the kids are wrong for asking for a piece of something they DO directly affect, and that IU shouldn't help them achieve that end, I disagree... Water will eventually find its level on this...But I think IU is certainly going about it the right way so far... Without the name on the front if the jersey they don't have anything to sell. The University name is what sells and not individual players Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted December 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 21 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said: I found this handy website https://www.on3.com/nil/collectives/hoosiers-for-good-21/deals/ So $1.2 million for TJD split almost evenly between Push, Paddle, Pedal and Turnstone Center. For that kind of money, you would think he would have a pretty big presence for their organizations. https://turnstone.org/pushpaddlepedal/ Turns out both organizations are the same thing. Looks like Race and Trayce are being paid to show up to a meet and greet for 2 hours with the Push, Paddle, Pedal event....do the math on that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 6 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said: Oh absolutely. I don't think people go to their economics professor for financial advice like I did. Where else did I learn to turn all my cash "donations" into physical silver bullion. Sales transactions of silver or gold under $10,000 don't have a reporting requirement. 🤫 Look outside your window 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 6 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Without the name on the front if the jersey they don't have anything to sell. The University name is what sells and not individual players I think sales metrics (😮) would prove you wrong there...If the IU bookstore has Indiana #23 jerseys, and it's the biggest seller they have, there's a reason for that...And Trayce should be able to benefit from it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyhoosier29 Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, IUFLA said: I think sales metrics (😮) would prove you wrong there...If the IU bookstore has Indiana #23 jerseys, and it's the biggest seller they have, there's a reason for that...And Trayce should be able to benefit from it... Other guys have worn 23 at IU right? So unless it has his name on the back of it, I disagree. I mean, I get your point, just not that example. IU owns the #23 jersey, not TJD. He only wears it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted December 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 8 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: So $1.2 million for TJD split almost evenly between Push, Paddle, Pedal and Turnstone Center. For that kind of money, you would think he would have a pretty big presence for their organizations. https://turnstone.org/pushpaddlepedal/ Turns out both organizations are the same thing. Looks like Race and Trayce are being paid to show up to a meet and greet for 2 hours with the Push, Paddle, Pedal event....do the math on that. And I will add to that, between TJD and Race, there is almost $700k being paid out to attend for 2 hours and promote that event. Looks like the organization they are "helping" does some really good things for a portion of our community that really need it. What do you think a true $700k donation would mean to a place like that as opposed to using them to basically launder that money to 2 college basketball players? How obscene is it to basically have 2 guys who can, will, and are making money with their athletic ability taking that kind of a payday to hang out for 2 hours and "promote" an event for people who would be ecstatic to even be able to walk normally? They aren't doing charity work. There is no effing way TJD is worth $300k an hour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 8 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: So $1.2 million for TJD split almost evenly between Push, Paddle, Pedal and Turnstone Center. For that kind of money, you would think he would have a pretty big presence for their organizations. https://turnstone.org/pushpaddlepedal/ Turns out both organizations are the same thing. Looks like Race and Trayce are being paid to show up to a meet and greet for 2 hours with the Push, Paddle, Pedal event....do the math on that. Again, are you sure that's all they did for $1.2 mil? No posters, pictures, hawking of the brand in other venues and social media sites? I'd think you guys would be on board with this...it's the way college sports is going to be run whether you like it or not... You guys get pissed because we lose at Kansas...But you start believing like that sanctimonious bunch to the north that NIL is the end of college sports, and we won't even be competing with Fort Hays State... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUskim Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, kyhoosier29 said: Other guys have worn 23 at IU right? So unless it has his name on the back of it, I disagree. I mean, I get your point, just not that example. IU owns the #23 jersey, not TJD. He only wears it. Is that number selling the same amount back when Damezi was wearing it? I doubt it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, kyhoosier29 said: Other guys have worn 23 at IU right? So unless it has his name on the back of it, I disagree. I mean, I get your point, just not that example. IU owns the #23 jersey, not TJD. He only wears it. If at this point in time, it's the #1 seller, there's no other way to take it...Keith Smart's shot was before most of the people that would want one were born...One year wonder Eric Gordan? Nah...Jamal Meeks? You guys are only fooling yourselves here...Change is not a bad thing, especially when fairness is at play... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted December 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 8 minutes ago, IUFLA said: If at this point in time, it's the #1 seller, there's no other way to take it...Keith Smart's shot was before most of the people that would want one were born...One year wonder Eric Gordan? Nah...Jamal Meeks? You guys are only fooling yourselves here...Change is not a bad thing, especially when fairness is at play... You are arguing something that we aren't. I don't care if the players get a percent of jersey sales with their name on them. I care that TJD is getting $600k labeled as charity to show up to an event for 2 hours and maybe have someone create a Tweet for him to put up promoting the event because I guarantee the ROE on that is far, far into the negative. True charity would be the organization for disabled people getting that $600k. L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 1 minute ago, IUCrazy2 said: I care that TJD is getting $600k labeled as charity to show up to an event for 2 hours and maybe have someone create a Tweet for him to put up promoting the event because I guarantee the ROE on that is far, far into the negative. True charity would be the organization for disabled people getting that $600k. L And as I said, you have no real evidence to prove any of that...I addressed your concerns separately in this post... You're reaching because you don't like it for some reason...If the retuen on investment isn't going to work out, then the money will stop flowing as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted December 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 1 minute ago, IUFLA said: And as I said, you have no real evidence to prove any of that...I addressed your concerns separately in this post... You're reaching because you don't like it for some reason...If the retuen on investment isn't going to work out, then the money will stop flowing as well... You were provided a link that shows the payment for the Push, Paddle, etc. event and a link to the event itself which says that TJD and Race are going to be available one morning in July during the event to meet and greet. Google it, there is video of he and Race there. In addition he did this: https://mobile.twitter.com/TrayceJackson/status/1537079517872852992 With this specific event, you are the one reaching. Additionally, Turnstone doesn't care because they are the beard. The donor doesn't care because the actual charity isn't the point either. The point is getting those players as much money as they can so we can be a "good" basketball team. This is all the crap we used to complain about with Kentucky with a "charitable" veneer attached. It is a joke. This is real NIL. https://theshopindy.com/products/trayce-jackson-davis-caricature?variant=39674397163599¤cy=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gclid=Cj0KCQiAtICdBhCLARIsALUBFcHTkqtqVbRLeExj_TekNRLXN59aF1-nA-jS5CzBZxpkznHdHkso8F8aAlbvEALw_wcB That doesn't add up to $600k though so the players are only mildly interested in that. I do think this is going to kill college athletics though. You are going to have 2 mega conferences built around football that pay their players and everyone else will fall to the wayside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 9 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: You were provided a link that shows the payment for the Push, Paddle, etc. event and a link to the event itself which says that TJD and Race are going to be available one morning in July during the event to meet and greet. Google it, there is video of he and Race there. In addition he did this: https://mobile.twitter.com/TrayceJackson/status/1537079517872852992 With this specific event, you are the one reaching. Additionally, Turnstone doesn't care because they are the beard. The donor doesn't care because the actual charity isn't the point either. The point is getting those players as much money as they can so we can be a "good" basketball team. This is all the crap we used to complain about with Kentucky with a "charitable" veneer attached. It is a joke. This is real NIL. https://theshopindy.com/products/trayce-jackson-davis-caricature?variant=39674397163599¤cy=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gclid=Cj0KCQiAtICdBhCLARIsALUBFcHTkqtqVbRLeExj_TekNRLXN59aF1-nA-jS5CzBZxpkznHdHkso8F8aAlbvEALw_wcB That doesn't add up to $600k though so the players are only mildly interested in that. I do think this is going to kill college athletics though. You are going to have 2 mega conferences built around football that pay their players and everyone else will fall to the wayside. So just so I'm straight on this, you are saying the NIL Value as depicted here... Is what Trayce got for showing up for 2 hours? Is that what you're saying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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