Penn State Post Game Thread

[rico]

Just now, btownqb said:

Here's a simple what if---

If, XJ plays we are.... 27-7, win the conference outright, and are playing today. 

That would be around what I would project.  

[BGleas]

5 minutes ago, rico said:

You forgot about Benson.  You forgot about Kitchel.  lol

We do play a lot of revisionist history around here.  And I enjoy playing it myself.  But I get what some on the other side of the fence are saying.

I don't think it's "revisionist history" to say we would have won more games with a healthy player who was our 2nd beat player last year and a senior point guard. 

[rico]

Just now, BGleas said:

I don't think it's "revisionist history" to say we would have won more games with a healthy player who was our 2nd beat player last year and a senior point guard. 

The history where XJ plays all year didn't happen.  Thus we revise history and assume outcomes.  

[IUFLA]

8 minutes ago, rico said:

The history where XJ plays all year didn't happen.  Thus we revise history and assume outcomes.  

And the other side of going 32-0 with a healthy XJ is a Sueing/Sensabaugh type struggle in Bloomington...

Just saying 🙂

[Zuckerkorn]

5 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I don't think it's "revisionist history" to say we would have won more games with a healthy player who was our 2nd beat player last year and a senior point guard. 

As we were flaming out (yet again) yesterday, I was thinking of how best to characterize this season & team.  The best description I could think of was that we were "a very average team with one exceptional veteran and one exceptional freshman".  Beyond that - nothing to brag about.  So adding an experienced player who would likely be the best-of-the-rest of the team would certainly have been a ssignificant addition.

But, as Rico says, it's conjecture.  Just like Scott May's arm or Alan Henderson's knee.

[Muddy River]

Interestingly, Micah was asked about Pickett last night, and his answer was something along the lines of “you win with guards”.  So I don’t think it’s revisionist, or even a leap to think we win more with an experienced and talented point guard.

[btownqb]

2 minutes ago, Muddy River said:

Interestingly, Micah was asked about Pickett last night, and his answer was something along the lines of “you win with guards”.  So I don’t think it’s revisionist, or even a leap to think we win more with an experienced and talented point guard.

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BGleas]

15 minutes ago, rico said:

The history where XJ plays all year didn't happen.  Thus we revise history and assume outcomes.  

This just seems like an extremely odd and dumb thing to be debating or even bringing up. We saw our team healthy and we boatraced UNC and won at Xavier. 

It's not revisionist history to say we'd be better with our team healthy, it's a very educated guess. 

I dont know for a fact, but I can safely make an educated guess that we would have been better if Romeo Langford had come back for a Sophomore year. 

I dont know for a fact, but I can safely make an educated guess that if XJ gets his medical waiver and JHS comes back thst well be a better team next year than if they both aren't back. 

[mrflynn03]

28 minutes ago, rico said:

You forgot about Benson.  You forgot about Kitchel.  lol

We do play a lot of revisionist history around here.  And I enjoy playing it myself.  But I get what some on the other side of the fence are saying.

What if Larry Bird had stayed?

[DWB]

Morning guys. I wanted to sleep on the loss before posting, because I get too wound up during and right after a game. 

I watched the presser this morning, and Trayce & Woody confirmed what I was feeling all game (and all night) long. We didn't play with intensity for 20 minutes, much less 40 minutes.

IMO, our shot selection from outside the paint was suspect, the ball stuck too much for too long of a time in JHS hands on offense, there was hardly any movement on offense to get open until TJD started to make his move, and our defensive intensity in the 1st half was abysmal. Other than a few high ball screens, I can't remember seeing any others in the game. (I'm sure there were a few, but certainly not many)

I still contend we should make Gallo give a blood transfusion to the rest of the team in hopes of getting them to play harder. Gallo certainly isn't as talented as others on the team, but nobody, and I mean nobody outworks him on the floor.

[rico]

3 minutes ago, BGleas said:

This just seems like an extremely odd and dumb thing to be debating or even bringing up. We saw our team healthy and we boatraced UNC and won at Xavier. 

It's not revisionist history to say we'd be better with our team healthy, it's a very educated guess. 

I dont know for a fact, but I can safely make an educated guess that we would have been better if Romeo Langford had come back for a Sophomore year. 

I dont know for a fact, but I can safely make an educated guess that if XJ gets his medical waiver and JHS comes back thst well be a better team next year than if they both aren't back. 

Dammit.  You can call it anything you want to.  Speculate positively.  Assume positively.  Guess safely.  The fact remains that we didn't have XJ and will never know what would have happened if we did.

[Zuckerkorn]

2 minutes ago, BGleas said:

This just seems like an extremely odd and dumb thing to be debating or even bringing up. We saw our team healthy and we boatraced UNC and won at Xavier. 

It's not revisionist history to say we'd be better with our team healthy, it's a very educated guess. 

I dont know for a fact, but I can safely make an educated guess that we would have been better if Romeo Langford had come back for a Sophomore year. 

I dont know for a fact, but I can safely make an educated guess that if XJ gets his medical waiver and JHS comes back thst well be a better team next year than if they both aren't back. 

True.  IMO we may have been able to nudge pu out for first and we'd have been better, but still not likely final four bound. 

For the betterment of the program, things may have unfolded in our favor.  JHS ran the point, showcased, and will be a one-and-done which is purportedly good for recruiting.  XJ returning next season would reduce our roster needs by one.

[Muddy River]

I don’t think this is an exceptionally smart basketball team.  

• They don’t do a good job of exploiting mismatches.
• They don’t often feed the hot hand.
• The Shooters are often afraid to shoot.
• They pass up open shots to take contested ones
• At times I see a little Devonte Green in JHS as he tries to pound the ball through the floor and play hero ball.
• They commit a lot of silly fouls.
• At least once a game somebody throws a pass that make everyone in Hoosier Nation sit up and yell WTF?

As a whole, I just don’t think this team has a high basketball IQ.

[BGleas]

5 minutes ago, rico said:

Dammit.  You can call it anything you want to.  Speculate positively.  Assume positively.  Guess safely.  The fact remains that we didn't have XJ and will never know what would have happened if we did.

Ok, so no more speculation allowed on HSN, no matter how educated it is or based on what we've seen. 

[Zuckerkorn]

1 minute ago, Muddy River said:

I don’t think this is an exceptionally smart basketball team.  

• They don’t do a good job of exploiting mismatches.
• They don’t often feed the hot hand.
• The Shooters are often afraid to shoot.
• They pass up open shots to take contested ones
• At times I see a little Devonte Green in JHS as he tries to pound the ball through the floor and play hero ball.
• They commit a lot of silly fouls.
• At least once a game somebody throws a pass that make everyone in Hoosier Nation sit up and yell WTF?

As a whole, I just don’t think this team has a high basketball IQ.

No matter how you cut it we had multiple flaws (as do practically all teams). The two most glaring were lacking that 3-pt shooter that can get hot and control the game and lack of collective killer instinct.

To your point, our collective BBIQ is better than under Archie.

[rico]

Just now, BGleas said:

Ok, so no more speculation allowed on HSN, no matter how educated it is or based on what we've seen. 

LOL.  I never said not to speculate.  And I never said we wouldn't have been better with XJ.  Let conjecture reign.

[Muddy River]

23 minutes ago, BGleas said:

 

I dont know for a fact, but I can safely make an educated guess that we would have been better if Romeo Langford had come back for a Sophomore year. 

Does this mean we would’ve kept Archie???

[BGleas]

3 minutes ago, Muddy River said:

Does this mean we would’ve kept Archie???

I can't speculate 

Just having fun, Rico 🤣

[Inequality]

1 hour ago, BGleas said:

I guess I'm just confused on what the point is with your XJ comment? Do you not think our 2nd best player from last would would have added to the talent on the team this year? You think he would have been a net negative?

You can make an argument XJ was our most important player last year towards the end of the season and BTT that got us into the tournament. 

I'm just not understanding the point. 

My point is that X’s absence  isn’t the reason we lose basketball games. Which is what gets thrown around after every loss. Win with what you have and stop finding every excuse to pass blame.

We have five on the floor that have dominated at a high level and that have randomly struggled. Folks act like we are playing with 4 players. X could have very well been that third piece the help pick up the slack. Or not as we also seen in the large sample size we can reference.

The whole team minus Trace simply has to improve and there is no savior on the bench.

[btownqb]

3 minutes ago, Inequality said:

My point is that X’s absence  isn’t the reason we lose basketball games. Which is what gets thrown around after every loss. Win with what you have and stop finding every excuse to pass blame.

We have five on the floor that have dominated at a high level and that have randomly struggled. Folks act like we are playing with 4 players. X could have very well been that third piece the help pick up the slack. Or not as we also seen in the large sample size we can reference.

The whole team minus Trace simply has to improve and there is no savior on the bench.

Does our team make that excuse? Every excuse? 

Or are our fans using logic after watching a very perimeter oriented game, such as yesterday, and can recognize how much we missed our starting PG? 

Not once have I seen our team or staff make excuses or use XJs injury as a reason for loss... unless I'm missing something. 

Edited March 12, 2023 by btownqb

[tdhoosier]

This board has talent. We can apparently debate something that both sides completely agree on. 😂 

[Steubenhoosier]

What I believe, but it’s conjecture so open for debate— Having a healthy X would have improved our team’s performance on both ends of the floor.

What I know for a fact and is not debatable— Having a healthy X would have given other perimeter players more time to rest, removed the need to play some of them 35+ minutes a game, and made for a fresher team going through the grind of the season and tournaments 

[BGleas]

54 minutes ago, Inequality said:

My point is that X’s absence  isn’t the reason we lose basketball games. Which is what gets thrown around after every loss. Win with what you have and stop finding every excuse to pass blame.

We have five on the floor that have dominated at a high level and that have randomly struggled. Folks act like we are playing with 4 players. X could have very well been that third piece the help pick up the slack. Or not as we also seen in the large sample size we can reference.

The whole team minus Trace simply has to improve and there is no savior on the bench.

Is he using it as an excuse, who knows? Bur Woodson and the team have absolutely cited XJ's injury and the other injuries as having impacted the season, and they have. 

It has nothing to do with picking up slack or making excuses. We lost one of our best players and it negatively impacted the season. It just did. 

If healthy I think we can all safely assume we'd have more wins and been a more legit conference title contender. Excuse or whatever, health matters in sports. 

[Inequality]

9 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Is he using it as an excuse, who knows? Bur Woodson and the team have absolutely cited XJ's injury and the other injuries as having impacted the season, and they have. 

It has nothing to do with picking up slack or making excuses. We lost one of our best players and it negatively impacted the season. It just did. 

If healthy I think we can all safely assume we'd have more wins and been a more legit conference title contender. Excuse or whatever, health matters in sports. 

Who is “he”? I’ve not once named anyone. I was responding to the board as a whole in reference to the floated speculation that we win this game or that game with X. Never did I mention Woodson.

Of course health matters in sports lol.

I don’t think anyone is debating the effect of injuries. I see a bench full of players capable of providing a breather and meaningful minutes.

I guess it’s “dumb” to counter conjecture with the other side of conjecture.

 

[rico]

10 minutes ago, Inequality said:

Who is “he”? I’ve not once named anyone. I was responding to the board as a whole in reference to the floated speculation that we win this game or that game with X. Never did I mention Woodson.

Of course health matters in sports lol.

I don’t think anyone is debating the effect of injuries. I see a bench full of players capable of providing a breather and meaningful minutes.

I guess it’s “dumb” to counter conjecture with the other side of conjecture.

 

It always tickles me that many talk conjecture in absolutes.  There is no certainty in conjecture but some think there is.