jv1972iu Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 Just now, IU Scott said: You are right there because I would use up all of my eligibility. Also I got caught up with all the Billy Donovan stuff a couple of years ago so I am not going to do that again. Why? Just curious as to your reason? You have mentioned in other posts using your eligibility. Why is that sacred to you? Not slamming...just wanting to try and understand. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADegenerate Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, IU Scott said: You are right there because I would use up all of my eligibility. Also I got caught up with all the Billy Donovan stuff a couple of years ago so I am not going to do that again. Yeah, same here. I had Archie #2 but so far behind that I was disappointed when my buddy leaked it to me that it was Archie . Very very happy now of course. Who’d you have 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 14 minutes ago, jv1972iu said: Why? Just curious as to your reason? You have mentioned in other posts using your eligibility. Why is that sacred to you? Not slamming...just wanting to try and understand. Thanks. Because growing up my dream was to play college basketball and play for IU. My dream was not the NBA and I love college basketball and the atmosphere around it. Also the NBA is not going anywhere and if I am good enough after my freshman year then I will be good enough after my senior year. Also most of the all time great basketball players played 3 to 4 years of college and it did not hurt their career at all. Also money is not the most important thing and I would want to stay in college to enjoy the college experience as long as I can. Kids might be ready on the court at an early age but most are not ready for everything off the court at that age and can get lost in the shuffle and have nothing to fall back on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 34 minutes ago, ADegenerate said: Yeah, same here. I had Archie #2 but so far behind that I was disappointed when my buddy leaked it to me that it was Archie . Very very happy now of course. Who’d you have 2? Actually my number 1 was Gregg Marshall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jv1972iu Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 1 minute ago, IU Scott said: Because growing up my dream was to play college basketball and play for IU. My dream was not the NBA and I love college basketball and the atmosphere around it. Also the NBA is not going anywhere and if I am good enough after my freshman year then I will be good enough after my senior year. Also most of the all time great basketball players played 3 to 4 years of college and it did not hurt their career at all. Also money is not the most important thing and I would want to stay in college to enjoy the college experience as long as I can. Kids might be ready on the court at an early age but most are not ready for everything off the court at that age and can get lost in the shuffle and have nothing to fall back on. Fair enough. I'm older (68)...just wanted to understand what was driving your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slojoe Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, jv1972iu said: Fair enough. I'm older (68)...just wanted to understand what was driving your opinion. You're not older just more experienced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 10 minutes ago, jv1972iu said: Fair enough. I'm older (68)...just wanted to understand what was driving your opinion. I am 48 and grew up in an era that players played 4 years and it made both the college and the NBA a better product. Also to me the best experience a basketball player can have is playing the NCAA tournament and you only have 4 chances to play in one so I am not going to give that up to sit the bench in the NBA or the play in the G-league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 15 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Actually my number 1 was Gregg Marshall Why so confused DocHoosier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jv1972iu Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 12 minutes ago, slojoe said: You're not older just more experienced. Haha...ok, I'll accept that description. I do remember listening to the radio as Jimmy Rayl scored 56 against Minnesota. And we didn't even live in Indiana. But my folks were both Indiana farm kids who went to IU...so Hoosier blood runs in my veins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 12 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I am 48 and grew up in an era that players played 4 years and it made both the college and the NBA a better product. Also to me the best experience a basketball player can have is playing the NCAA tournament and you only have 4 chances to play in one so I am not going to give that up to sit the bench in the NBA or the play in the G-league. You know, I've got 4 years on you and the era thing is only partly true. How about IT? Left IU after his soph year, one of the greatest college and NBA point guards the game has seen. There are of course others. The one and done started in our era, Garnett, Kobe etc. Duncan was the aberration, not the rule. I'd say the real change was in the NBA, which went from teams built with little player movement to players having much more control and a much bigger piece of the pie, so now we have players that determine team outcomes. There are always pluses and minuses but the era thing is overstated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 13 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: You know, I've got 4 years on you and the era thing is only partly true. How about IT? Left IU after his soph year, one of the greatest college and NBA point guards the game has seen. There are of course others. The one and done started in our era, Garnett, Kobe etc. Duncan was the aberration, not the rule. I'd say the real change was in the NBA, which went from teams built with little player movement to players having much more control and a much bigger piece of the pie, so now we have players that determine team outcomes. There are always pluses and minuses but the era thing is overstated. I did not say all but the majority of them stayed 3 or 4 years. Also IT has said many times he wished that he could have stayed at IU for his last two years but was. not able to do so because of his family situation. You had Magic and IT that left after their sophomore year but what other all time great in that era left that early. I am sure there are a few but not many. You had Ewing, Ologuwaun? Bird, Drexler, Mullins, Jordan, Barkley just to name a few who went at least 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocHoosier Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 20 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Why so confused DocHoosier Greg Marshall was right next to Alford in my Non-Wish list. He comes with significant baggage with his personality. After the previous 9 years, I was looking for a coach who’s all business—Archie fits the bill! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jv1972iu Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 22 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I did not say all but the majority of them stayed 3 or 4 years. Also IT has said many times he wished that he could have stayed at IU for his last two years but was. not able to do so because of his family situation. You had Magic and IT that left after their sophomore year but what other all time great in that era left that early. I am sure there are a few but not many. You had Ewing, Ologuwaun? Bird, Drexler, Mullins, Jordan, Barkley just to name a few who went at least 3 years. Wasn't that partly because the player had to show that there was "hardship" involved as to why he wanted to leave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 17 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I did not say all but the majority of them stayed 3 or 4 years. Also IT has said many times he wished that he could have stayed at IU for his last two years but was. not able to do so because of his family situation. You had Magic and IT that left after their sophomore year but what other all time great in that era left that early. I am sure there are a few but not many. You had Ewing, Ologuwaun? Bird, Drexler, Mullins, Jordan, Barkley just to name a few who went at least 3 years. IT and Magic are clearly two of the best ever. When you say "that era" what is your time period? We're now in 2018 - The "one and done era" only started with the new CBA in 2006. From 2006 forward you then had multiple elite college players who went one and done. They include Durant in 2007, then Rose, Love, our own Eric Gordon, John Wall, Kyrie, Anthony Davis, etc. And of course before the one and done you had guys straight from high school, including of course LeBron who is in the conversation for GOAT, Kobe, Stoudemire (and LeBron and Stoudemire both won rookie of the year), Garnett, etc. And then there's the fact that the NBA itself for years mandated that a player play four years after high school graduation before he could be drafted -- that changed with a Supreme Court decision in 1971. So we're talking NBA rules, not player decisions and circumstances up to that point. Then Moses Malone was drafted to the ABA out of high school in '74 -- obviously an all time great.Darryl Dawkins the next year. Then a decade or so went by with no high school players getting drafted. Now we're headed back to the end of the one and done rule and we'll see more elite high school players become great NBA players. I do think you are enamored of old school basketball, but the fact is that there have been multiple elite and several all time great college and NBA players who left early spanning decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 7 minutes ago, jv1972iu said: Wasn't that partly because the player had to show that there was "hardship" involved as to why he wanted to leave? Also at that time the NBA wanted to bring in guys who have prove to be a great player and now it is all on potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: IT and Magic are clearly two of the best ever. When you say "that era" what is your time period? We're now in 2018 - The "one and done era" only started with the new CBA in 2006. From 2006 forward you then had multiple elite college players who went one and done. They include Durant in 2007, then Rose, Love, our own Eric Gordon, John Wall, Kyrie, Anthony Davis, etc. And of course before the one and done you had guys straight from high school, including of course LeBron who is in the conversation for GOAT, Kobe, Stoudemire (and LeBron and Stoudemire both won rookie of the year), Garnett, etc. And then there's the fact that the NBA itself for years mandated that a player play four years after high school graduation before he could be drafted -- that changed with a Supreme Court decision in 1971. So we're talking NBA rules, not player decisions and circumstances up to that point. Then Moses Malone was drafted to the ABA out of high school in '74 -- obviously an all time great.Darryl Dawkins the next year. Then a decade or so went by with no high school players getting drafted. Now we're headed back to the end of the one and done rule and we'll see more elite high school players become great NBA players. I do think you are enamored of old school basketball, but the fact is that there have been multiple elite and several all time great college and NBA players who left early spanning decades. Besides Labron, Kobe and Durrant I would not put any of those other players you listed as all time greats. I am enamored with the basketball of the 80's and to the mid 90's because to me it is far superior than the product we see at all levels today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 56 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I am 48 and grew up in an era that players played 4 years and it made both the college and the NBA a better product. Also to me the best experience a basketball player can have is playing the NCAA tournament and you only have 4 chances to play in one so I am not going to give that up to sit the bench in the NBA or the play in the G-league. I am 51.....players came out well before. You are forgetting about the ABA. Big Mac and Dr. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, rico said: I am 51.....players came out well before. You are forgetting about the ABA. Big Mac and Dr. J I did not realize that Dr. J only played two years of college ball but back then wasn't freshman ineligible so did he not stay in college 3 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 7 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I did not realize that Dr. J only played two years of college ball but back then wasn't freshman ineligible so did he not stay in college 3 years IIRC correctly 1972 was the year that freshmen were eligible to play. So Erving would have been in school for 3 years. But only played 2. But the ABA pursued talents due to their "rules". Moses Malone was drafted directly out of HS to the ABA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, rico said: IIRC correctly 1972 was the year that freshmen were eligible to play. So Erving would have been in school for 3 years. But only played 2. But the ABA pursued talents due to their "rules". Moses Malone was drafted directly out of HS to the ABA. Like I said that I know some left early but the majority of the top layers stayed 3 or 4 years and to me it made all brands of basketball better. I know I am in the minority on this but I just wish they can go back to players staying to make the product better again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonV Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 58 minutes ago, DocHoosier said: Greg Marshall was right next to Alford in my Non-Wish list. He comes with significant baggage with his personality. After the previous 9 years, I was looking for a coach who’s all business—Archie fits the bill! Baggage indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Like I said that I know some left early but the majority of the top layers stayed 3 or 4 years and to me it made all brands of basketball better. I know I am in the minority on this but I just wish they can go back to players staying to make the product better again. I am not disagreeing with you, just saying that players leaving early has been around my entire lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jv1972iu Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 7 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Like I said that I know some left early but the majority of the top layers stayed 3 or 4 years and to me it made all brands of basketball better. I know I am in the minority on this but I just wish they can go back to players staying to make the product better again. Not sure that having kids stay four years would give you the result you ask for..."make the product better again". Sounds somewhat like MAGA. But it's just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, jv1972iu said: Not sure that having kids stay four years would give you the result you ask for..."make the product better again". Sounds somewhat like MAGA. But it's just my opinion. So do you think the college game today is a better product than it was in the 80's an d90's when the majority of the top players stayed at least 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 9 minutes ago, jv1972iu said: Not sure that having kids stay four years would give you the result you ask for..."make the product better again". Sounds somewhat like MAGA. But it's just my opinion. I will agree with Scott on this one. There is a reason why "mid-majors" have success in the tournament....their players stay for 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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