NBA Thread

[Seeking6]

10 hours ago, BGleas said:

Ok, when you lose like that it's clearly not the refs fault. The Celtics were horrendous. 

But in my frustration please allow me this. 

When the game was within reach in the 3rd quarter there were two horrendous travel calls on the Celtics and they both took points off the board and one should have been an And 1 instead of a travel.  

Then there were two clear travel/double dribbles during that stretch on Miami that weren't called that resulted in baskets. Then also Jimmy stepped out of bounds on a pass that resulted in a 3. 

That was 5 points taken from us and 7 given to them on bad travel/double dribble calls and an out of bounds. 

Essentially a 12 point swing and these were all in the critical moments when it was between 7-12 points. 

The Pacers front office and ownership carries the brunt of most of my fading NBA fandom over the years but a close second was officiating. I can't tell you the number of years in series vs Knicks/Bulls...that it just seemed like call after call after call went against them. Just started to wear me down as a fan.

[13th&Jackson]

33 minutes ago, rico said:

Totally irrelevant but I used to play for the Nuggets.  The year was 1970 something and I was in the 5th grade.  I actually led the team in scoring but the truth of the matter is we sucked.  Back then the local Little League Basketball league only had 8 teams.  The Black Cats, the Blue Blazers, the Red Devils, the Purple Eagles, the White Knights, the Green Giants, the Orange Tigers, and the Gold Nuggets.  I led the Nuggets to a 2-12 regular season record and a first game exit in the season ending tournament.

I am amazed at how far the organization has came from those days.  NBA finals baby!

I'm impressed that your 5th grade team was named after a casino

[dgambill]

14 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Oh, agree. Haliburton would be on a much better deal which is the big difference. 

I don't think there would be any deal between Boston and Indy for a deal there. There's just no match. Celtics are win now, and Indiana is in ascension mode so not looking to sell. 

Only way I could see some deal there is if we somehow land Scoot Henderson…but I don’t really see that happening. 
 

Imo Marcus Smart is the most likely trade piece to move if you want to shake up the team. Would you do a Fred VanVleet for Smart deal? I feel like it would have to be something like that (level). I mean unless you are just throwing a million picks at the Wizards or Portland plus Smart/Brogdon and change for one of those two stars….just hard to see. Thing is….you have one of the best teams in the league….just haven’t figured out how to take care of the ball and value possessions in the playoffs.

[IUFLA]

46 minutes ago, rico said:

Totally irrelevant but I used to play for the Nuggets.  The year was 1970 something and I was in the 5th grade.  I actually led the team in scoring but the truth of the matter is we sucked.  Back then the local Little League Basketball league only had 8 teams.  The Black Cats, the Blue Blazers, the Red Devils, the Purple Eagles, the White Knights, the Green Giants, the Orange Tigers, and the Gold Nuggets.  I led the Nuggets to a 2-12 regular season record and a first game exit in the season ending tournament.

I am amazed at how far the organization has came from those days.  NBA finals baby!

But in 1970 the ABA Denver franchise was the Rockets 

And you were Spencer Haywood 😉

[BGleas]

8 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Only way I could see some deal there is if we somehow land Scoot Henderson…but I don’t really see that happening. 
 

Imo Marcus Smart is the most likely trade piece to move if you want to shake up the team. Would you do a Fred VanVleet for Smart deal? I feel like it would have to be something like that (level). I mean unless you are just throwing a million picks at the Wizards or Portland plus Smart/Brogdon and change for one of those two stars….just hard to see. Thing is….you have one of the best teams in the league….just haven’t figured out how to take care of the ball and value possessions in the playoffs.

I dont know if Van Vleet would be the guy, but yes as much as I love Smart I think he's the piece you have to consider moving. 

The Celtics need a true playmaker at the point guard spot for when the offense gets stagnant and Tatum and Brown go into iso/over-dribble mode. 

Also, Red Auerbach's philosophy was to always trade guys before they decline. Trade them at their peak. Smart is a sort of valuable piece, but he's also going to have a swift decline with the beating his body takes and that while hes improved a ton he's not a natural shooting/scoring threat. 

I think moving him is probably the piece that you need to gauge what is out there. 

[dgambill]

10 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I dont know if Van Vleet would be the guy, but yes as much as I love Smart I think he's the piece you have to consider moving. 

The Celtics need a true playmaker at the point guard spot for when the offense gets stagnant and Tatum and Brown go into iso/over-dribble mode. 

Also, Red Auerbach's philosophy was to always trade guys before they decline. Trade them at their peak. Smart is a sort of valuable piece, but he's also going to have a swift decline with the beating his body takes and that while hes improved a ton he's not a natural shooting/scoring threat. 

I think moving him is probably the piece that you need to gauge what is out there. 

Yeah…I think so too. White is amazing for what he gives you but Smart isn’t a natural shooter. Maybe it’s just adding a couple guys like the Heat have done with some under the radar players or finally having a guy like Pritchard figure it out but hard to get something for nothing. Do the Belichek thing…always trade a guy a year too soon rather than try a year too late. Smart’s value is maxed out…along with his talent level I’d say. You guys could really use that Chris Paul type veteran point guard leader…that is why I thought maybe VanVleet. You know…kind of a Brunson type.

[BGleas]

20 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Yeah…I think so too. White is amazing for what he gives you but Smart isn’t a natural shooter. Maybe it’s just adding a couple guys like the Heat have done with some under the radar players or finally having a guy like Pritchard figure it out but hard to get something for nothing. Do the Belichek thing…always trade a guy a year too soon rather than try a year too late. Smart’s value is maxed out…along with his talent level I’d say. You guys could really use that Chris Paul type veteran point guard leader…that is why I thought maybe VanVleet. You know…kind of a Brunson type.

Completely agree. Not against Van Vleet by any means, just think that might now work out salary wise. But yeah, a Chris Paul type from 3 years ago when he joined Phoenix would he perfect. 

[dgambill]

2 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Completely agree. Not against Van Vleet by any means, just think that might now work out salary wise. But yeah, a Chris Paul type from 3 years ago when he joined Phoenix would he perfect. 

Well he has a player option. He may want a little more salary it’s hard to say if he will opt out. Raptors would likely want to get something for him as opposed to him walking on them. He may also be on the decline a bit too. Had a rough year last year. In past he has been a 38% 3pt shooter…creative for others. It works at their current salaries. Really good point guards are just hard to get because it’s such an important position and usually the identity of the team. I’m sure the Lakers would do a sign and trade with Russell lol…but he might be an even worse option.

[dgambill]

Who knows…can the heat resign Vincent and Streus etc…maybe you just add a piece…maybe a Seth Curry type to play off White and Tatum.

No matter what you are in way better situation than 95% of the league…

Edited May 30, 2023 by dgambill

[BGleas]

🤣🤣

 

 

[IU Scott]

2 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

What else would you guys give up for Hali? He’s a better asset at this point than Brown.

And to be clear, not saying he is a better player just yet but age and cost are on his side in a huge way and the talent gap isn’t that big, and Hali is still years away from his prime. 

Pacers won't trade Haliburton for Brown straight up or for anyone

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, BGleas said:

Completely agree. Not against Van Vleet by any means, just think that might now work out salary wise. But yeah, a Chris Paul type from 3 years ago when he joined Phoenix would he perfect. 

Would you trade Brown for Damian Lilliard

[KoB2011]

2 hours ago, BGleas said:

Oh, agree. Haliburton would be on a much better deal which is the big difference. 

I don't think there would be any deal between Boston and Indy for a deal there. There's just no match. Celtics are win now, and Indiana is in ascension mode so not looking to sell. 

That I completely agree with.

I actually think the Celts are in a really tough spot with Brown. It's going to be hard to move him and get a single player of even value, but with the Celts in win now mode they kind of need that. 

[BGleas]

20 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Would you trade Brown for Damian Lilliard

You'd have to think really hard about, that's for sure. My worry is just Dame's age and how much tread is left on those tires. 

You don't want Tatum to be hitting 27, 28, 29 in his full prime but alongside a steeply declining co-star in Dame. 

No idea on cap and CBA stuff here, and I think we keep Brown, but for fun/discussion sake I'd almost be looking at a way to get Brown to Portland with Dame, the #3 to Washington and Beal to Boston in a 3-team deal. 

Again, I think we keep Brown and look to move other pieces, so that was just for discussion. 

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, BGleas said:

🤣🤣

 

 

The Nuggets will have an interesting championship to rate - obviously it's an "easy path" looking at the seeds, but is going through the Suns, Lakers, and Heat actually easy? That's some serious start power and playoff success to beat going through those teams.

Joker has always been knocked for the lack of playoff success, even though everyone around him was injured, and now they're healthy and destroying everyone in front of them and people will say it's too easy despite going through two of the top 20 players ever 😂

[BGleas]

8 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

That I completely agree with.

I actually think the Celts are in a really tough spot with Brown. It's going to be hard to move him and get a single player of even value, but with the Celts in win now mode they kind of need that. 

I mean, it's tough I guess but not that tough. We're still knocking right on the door of a championship. 

You re-sign Brown to the Super Max and you have two years before Tatum is re-upped. 

So you tweak the rest of the roster and see if you can get it right. Meanwhile, when you have to pay Tatum, Brown will still be just 28 so that would be the offseason where you definitively have to make a decision. 

[KoB2011]

2 minutes ago, BGleas said:

You'd have to think really hard about, that's for sure. My worry is just Dame's age and how much tread is left on those tires. 

You don't want Tatum to be hitting 27, 28, 29 in his full prime but alongside a steeply declining co-star in Dame. 

No idea on cap and CBA stuff here, and I think we keep Brown, but for fun/discussion sake I'd almost be looking at a way to get Brown to Portland with Dame, the #3 to Washington and Beal to Boston in a 3-team deal. 

Again, I think we keep Brown and look to move other pieces, so that was just for discussion. 

Something like that makes more sense, or even a Trae Young for Brown type of deal. Atlanta likely needs to throw in something else, but with the other defenders the Celts have in place I actually think that could potentially be a fit.... 

[KoB2011]

2 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I mean, it's tough I guess but not that tough. We're still knocking right on the door of a championship. 

You re-sign Brown to the Super Max and you have two years before Tatum is re-upped. 

So you tweak the rest of the roster and see if you can get it right. Meanwhile, when you have to pay Tatum, Brown will still be just 28 so that would be the offseason where you definitively have to make a decision. 

Yeah if the move is to re-sign Brown I agree, last night you were ready to move on though so I was going with that line of thinking.

I think Brown would be tough to move and get someone equal to help you win now - lots of teams can throw a ton of parts but that doesn't help you, you need a 1B to go next to Tatum. 

[ATX_sig]

I think the Celts should be patient and keep Brown.  If not, what do the Raptors have to offer.  Siakum?  Would Celts need more than Siakum.  Or could it be OG and more?  

[BGleas]

18 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Yeah if the move is to re-sign Brown I agree, last night you were ready to move on though so I was going with that line of thinking.

I think Brown would be tough to move and get someone equal to help you win now - lots of teams can throw a ton of parts but that doesn't help you, you need a 1B to go next to Tatum. 

Yeah, I was emotional. Though I have moved from 100% keep them together and tweak around them, to always keeping your eye on what you can get for Brown and pulling the trigger when it makes sense. I have come down from absolutely needing to trade him since last night. 

One thing on Brown, he absolutely owned it in the postgame presser and I have a ton of respect for that. From what I read he used the phrase "I failed" 6 different times when addressing the media. I've always been a big Brown fan and I respect that and trust he'll use this as motivation to get better. How much better can he actually get is the question?

[KoB2011]

31 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Yeah, I was emotional. Though I have moved from 100% keep them together and tweak around them, to always keeping your eye on what you can get for Brown and pulling the trigger when it makes sense. I have come down from absolutely needing to trade him since last night. 

One thing on Brown, he absolutely owned it in the postgame presser and I have a ton of respect for that. From what I read he used the phrase "I failed" 6 different times when addressing the media. I've always been a big Brown fan and I respect that and trust he'll use this as motivation to get better. How much better can he actually get is the question?

I like that response from Brown - I think he's a good dude and teammate.

I don't know that he needs to get better, he just needs to not melt down in that type of situation. His skillset is more than fine for what the Celts need from him.

The Celts biggest roster issue, IMO, is having 3 combo guards to play point guard. You've said this before, but getting a guy who can make life easier on the Jays would be huge for them. 

[dgambill]

52 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

The Nuggets will have an interesting championship to rate - obviously it's an "easy path" looking at the seeds, but is going through the Suns, Lakers, and Heat actually easy? That's some serious start power and playoff success to beat going through those teams.

Joker has always been knocked for the lack of playoff success, even though everyone around him was injured, and now they're healthy and destroying everyone in front of them and people will say it's too easy despite going through two of the top 20 players ever 😂

Seeding is irrelevant in current NBA. Nobody even cares about getting the #1 seed. The seeds no where near reflect how good the teams actually are. Would people been saying how easy the Celtics had it going through an 8 seed?  Fact is with the way teams rest stars and jockey for matchups it’s hard to say. I mean GS was the lower seed in the Sacramento series but would you say that was an upset? I don’t think what Denver is going is historical or anything…they are the best team in the west…doesn’t matter who they would have faced they would have beat them all….are they facing the best in the East? Certainly not the most talented….but playing together and shooting the best right now. Heat have really had a hot hand.

[dgambill]

41 minutes ago, ATX_sig said:

I think the Celts should be patient and keep Brown.  If not, what do the Raptors have to offer.  Siakum?  Would Celts need more than Siakum.  Or could it be OG and more?  

Not sure either of those are really an upgrade on Brown. Guy is an all nba player and young. I really do think it’s about the coach putting these guys in the right positions to succeed. Running more sets when the offense isn’t clicking, getting the ball moving so it doesn’t stick, finding guys shots in their comfort zones. Maybe Joe will figure all that out….maybe they will hire a more seasoned coach (wondering if they could use a little of that). Celtics are at their best when their defense is locked in….I have to say…in the losses…that defense was far from its best. I think really talented teams can sometimes feel like they can take possessions off and rely too much on their offense…but in the playoffs everything is just ratcheted up and the intensity level doesn’t work well with teams that don’t play disciplined.

[Seeking6]

4 hours ago, BGleas said:

I dont know if Van Vleet would be the guy, but yes as much as I love Smart I think he's the piece you have to consider moving. 

The Celtics need a true playmaker at the point guard spot for when the offense gets stagnant and Tatum and Brown go into iso/over-dribble mode. 

Also, Red Auerbach's philosophy was to always trade guys before they decline. Trade them at their peak. Smart is a sort of valuable piece, but he's also going to have a swift decline with the beating his body takes and that while hes improved a ton he's not a natural shooting/scoring threat. 

I think moving him is probably the piece that you need to gauge what is out there. 

DP mentioned something this morning that I thought was pretty accurate. I've always been trying to figure out how to say it but Brown and Tatum don't seem to compliment each other as much as the great tandems do. Now I'm not saying break them up but they might need to evaluate how they play with each other moving forward. 

[dgambill]

Wowzer…no wonder these kids want to get to the NBA so bad!! As for Brown….man that would give me heartburn….especially knowing you would have another max contract with Tatum alongside. I don’t know how you can fill out a quality roster once you get to numbers like that. Bostons depth which has been a big plus will certainly take a hit.

Next year is a HUGE year for the Celtics obviously.

Edited May 30, 2023 by dgambill