Coronavirus

[rico]

https://www.abc15.com/news/region-phoenix-metro/central-phoenix/first-arizona-covid-19-patient-treated-with-ecmo-therapy-survives-honorhealth-reports/

[tdhoosier]

Holcomb is contemplating loosening restrictions next week, but state officials are now saying cases aren't expected to peak until early May. This coupled with the fact that people with symptoms are still being denied tests. I can't imagine he'll go through with that plan because to a certain degree we are still flying blind. That's a huge amount of liability to take on. These governors are in tough positions, no doubt. On one side people need to work. On another side, if he opens up and cases spike and he'll be held responsible. On another-other side, if he opens up and cases spike then we have to start are social distancing all over again, thus, further delaying the opening up of the state. AND then to throw another stick on the fire...Governors have to also consider how their decisions affect their neighboring states. Damn...glad I'm not a Governor. 

Edited April 15, 2020 by tdhoosier

[tdhoosier]

1 hour ago, rico said:

https://www.abc15.com/news/region-phoenix-metro/central-phoenix/first-arizona-covid-19-patient-treated-with-ecmo-therapy-survives-honorhealth-reports/

Quote

The ECMO therapy removes blood from the body, pumps it with oxygen, and replaces the blood back into the body.

Now that the Tour De France is cancelled, maybe they can donate all their blood doping equipment. haha. 

All kidding aside, I really hope one of these trials works out. 

[5fouls]

1 hour ago, rico said:

https://www.abc15.com/news/region-phoenix-metro/central-phoenix/first-arizona-covid-19-patient-treated-with-ecmo-therapy-survives-honorhealth-reports/

Experimental treatments that show promise should be used as often as possible.  It's like if you are on the third floor of a burning building with the only option to be to jump.  Sure the jump may kill or maim you, but if the alternative is being consumed by fire, you take the chance.  We, as a society, are much to slow to embrace the unknown.

[rico]

21 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

Governors have to also consider how their decisions affect their neighboring states. Damn...glad I'm not a Governor. 

Yeah, it seems to be a "Catch-22".  I see some states have already started working with other states.  Tough times with tough decisions for sure.

[5fouls]

24 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

Holcomb is contemplating loosening restrictions next week, but state officials are now saying cases aren't expected to peak until early May. This coupled with the fact that people with symptoms are still being denied tests. I can't imagine he'll go through with that plan because to a certain degree we are still flying blind. That's a huge amount of liability to take on. These governors are in tough positions, no doubt. On one side people need to work. On another side, if he opens up and cases spike and he'll be held responsible. On another-other side, if he opens up and cases spike then we have to start are social distancing all over again, thus, further delaying the opening up of the state. AND then to throw another stick on the fire...Governors have to also consider how their decisions affect their neighboring states. Damn...glad I'm not a Governor. 

Numbers spiked today in Indiana.   Going to be a tough sell to open any time soon.

[Lostin76]

37 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Numbers spiked today in Indiana.   Going to be a tough sell to open any time soon.

The problem with premature openings is a possible second wave even worse than the first. Which would result in even more economic damage. This is really a bad situation for states to be in.

[Proud2BAHoosier]

4 hours ago, rico said:

Can't speak for welfare but a lot of people on SS still work and file taxes, my Father being one of them at the young age of 80.

Same for me, and I do pay taxes since I am self-employed. But since the economy has tanked, my business has been totally shut down.

This extra income will help....

On a side note: You all know the old saying... You can't fix stupid? Well it was reported yesterday that in my town of Evansville, that there are 4 people that tested positive for the covid-19 virus and have refused to isolate themselves for the 14 day period. they were abusive to the Health Dept. workers and the Sheriff department had to be called in. They are monitoring them very closely.

https://www.14news.com/2020/04/14/health-department-refuse-self-isolate-after-being-contact-with-person-who-tested-positive-covid-/

Edited April 15, 2020 by Proud2BAHoosier

[DWB]

5 hours ago, rico said:

Can't speak for welfare but a lot of people on SS still work and file taxes, my Father being one of them at the young age of 80.

Then I'm all for it. I thought I said Retired Seniors, but maybe not.

The relief funds should be for workers....of any age IMO.

But for those of us already retired...we're supposed to have our finances in order.

[rico]

2 minutes ago, DWB said:

Then I'm all for it. I thought I said Retired Seniors, but maybe not.

The relief funds should be for workers....of any age IMO.

But for those of us already retired...we're supposed to have our finances in order.

Always remember...the AARP is a powerful organization.

[DWB]

Not as much as they used to be, and in reality, they're nothing more than an agent to sell insurance. Oh, they tout a bunch of benefits, but in reality they're pretty incompetent from my standpoint. I wouldn't join that organization if Rico paid my bill. 

[rico]

Revolution?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/drivers-swarm-michigan-capital-to-protest-coronavirus-lockdown-measures

[jefftheref]

38 minutes ago, rico said:

Revolution?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/drivers-swarm-michigan-capital-to-protest-coronavirus-lockdown-measures

Dimwhitmer is an idiot. You can't buy paint at home Depot but you can walk up and down every aisle in the store.

Our attorney general just tweeted that white people are upset because they can't play golf. Another idiot in office.

 

Edited April 15, 2020 by jefftheref

[NotIThatLives]

7 hours ago, Lostin76 said:

And then there's this heartbreaking piece: "To alleviate pressure on hospitals, last week the council that oversees emergency responders told paramedics and EMTs  to try to revive a person whose heart has stopped beating in the field. If they can’t do so, the person is not taken to a hospital for further care."

This is a pure example of fear mongering.  We, first responders,  always work to resuscitate a patient on scene for 30 mins, that has been protocol as long as I have been on the department and is based on scientific research of best practices for recovery.  There are 2 exceptions.  1 pediatrics.   2 when spontaneous resuscitation occurs then we load them up and get to a hospital.  

Each city and state has their own protocols but I have always been under the impression these are recommendations from the American Heart Association, therefore, widely held and followed.  

[Reacher]

Just came across this and liked his analogy-

Here’s how renowned investor Edward Lampert put it in The New York Sun on April 6:

Driving an automobile is risky. In 2018, the number of auto-related fatalities in the United States was 36,560, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Yet we don’t ban automobiles, nor do we impose a 10 mile an hour speed limit. Doing so would eliminate most of those deaths and injuries, but it would also adversely affect economic activity enabled by faster transportation of people and products.

Overall, the benefits of automobiles exceed the costs. Individuals knowingly assume the risks. Businesses compete to make money by reducing those risks. To deal with market failures and externalities, and to provide a certain minimum floor, we have regulatory mechanisms imposed by government to mitigate risks and compensate for losses.

These same approaches can be useful in guiding the public policy response to the coronavirus, showing the way to a middle ground that minimizes harm without excessive costs to either the economy or individual freedom. . . .

We need to get America back to work quickly. Businesses and individuals can adapt dynamically to intelligently guard their interests, seek opportunities, and make trade-offs. The government can provide the traffic signals and the safety standards. That approach to public health is consistent with a free and economically vibrant country, rather than in conflict with it. It’s tested on our highways every day.

[mrflynn03]

Seems this lockdown has brought out America's worst drivers. 

[Lostin76]

49 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

This is a pure example of fear mongering.  We, first responders,  always work to resuscitate a patient on scene for 30 mins, that has been protocol as long as I have been on the department and is based on scientific research of best practices for recovery.  There are 2 exceptions.  1 pediatrics.   2 when spontaneous resuscitation occurs then we load them up and get to a hospital.  

Each city and state has their own protocols but I have always been under the impression these are recommendations from the American Heart Association, therefore, widely held and followed.  

This is actually not fearmongering. It's happening here in NYC. I work at the School of Medicine for a major university here in NYC. There is protocol. But there is also the reality of how many runs our first responders can physically make in a day. It might be different where you live, but here in NYC right now, it's different. Protocols are important but becoming much more flexible. We would love to follow all recommendations to the T, but it's just not possible right now.

[Lostin76]

2 hours ago, Reacher said:

Just came across this and liked his analogy-

Here’s how renowned investor Edward Lampert put it in The New York Sun on April 6:

Driving an automobile is risky. In 2018, the number of auto-related fatalities in the United States was 36,560, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Yet we don’t ban automobiles, nor do we impose a 10 mile an hour speed limit. Doing so would eliminate most of those deaths and injuries, but it would also adversely affect economic activity enabled by faster transportation of people and products.

Overall, the benefits of automobiles exceed the costs. Individuals knowingly assume the risks. Businesses compete to make money by reducing those risks. To deal with market failures and externalities, and to provide a certain minimum floor, we have regulatory mechanisms imposed by government to mitigate risks and compensate for losses.

These same approaches can be useful in guiding the public policy response to the coronavirus, showing the way to a middle ground that minimizes harm without excessive costs to either the economy or individual freedom. . . .

We need to get America back to work quickly. Businesses and individuals can adapt dynamically to intelligently guard their interests, seek opportunities, and make trade-offs. The government can provide the traffic signals and the safety standards. That approach to public health is consistent with a free and economically vibrant country, rather than in conflict with it. It’s tested on our highways every day.

The number of auto-related fatalities was for a year. If we extrapolate the roughly 1 month US death toll of 25K from COVID-19 to a yearly number then we are looking at 300K deaths per year. Is that acceptable? If we stopped social distancing, then what would the monthly death toll be? What would it be for a year? Probably in the millions.

And his "regulatory mechanisms" is equal to social distancing measures.

I'm kind of fed up with investors telling us what we should be doing. I don't need someone from Wall Street telling me how to survive a pandemic. They only care about making money off of us.

That said, we have some local businesses that are doing an amazing job by staying open AND being safe. It can be done. That takes cooperation from them and from consumers.

And finally, he's asking for cooperation from government - that would be awesome, but I'm not hopeful. We have some governors stepping up and some being idiots. And then we have a toddler in the White House who can't even manage his diaper change without throwing a fit about someone else who must have placed the poop in his diaper.

 

[Muckraker]

3 minutes ago, Lostin76 said:

The number of auto-related fatalities was for a year. If we extrapolate the roughly 1 month US death toll of 25K from COVID-19 to a yearly number then we are looking at 300K deaths per year. Is that acceptable? If we stopped social distancing, then what would the monthly death toll be? What would it be for a year? Probably in the millions.

And his "regulatory mechanisms" is equal to social distancing measures.

I'm kind of fed up with investors telling us what we should be doing. I don't need someone from Wall Street telling me how to survive a pandemic. They only care about making money off of us.

That said, we have some local businesses that are doing an amazing job by staying open AND being safe. It can be done. That takes cooperation from them and from consumers.

And finally, he's asking for cooperation from government - that would be awesome, but I'm not hopeful. We have some governors stepping up and some being idiots. And then we have a toddler in the White House who can't even manage his diaper change without throwing a fit about someone else who must have placed the poop in his diaper.

 

Looks like somebody needs to feel the ban hammer! 

[Lostin76]

Just now, Muckraker said:

Looks like somebody needs to feel the ban hammer! 

You know I thought about that as I was typing, but then I noticed that it was okay for people to call governors idiots further upthread. Is the toddler in the White House sacred and governors are okay to be labeled as idiots? Is only one of those political?

And maybe you would be more comfortable in a society where people can't speak their minds?

 

[Muckraker]

8 minutes ago, Lostin76 said:

You know I thought about that as I was typing, but then I noticed that it was okay for people to call governors idiots further upthread. Is the toddler in the White House sacred and governors are okay to be labeled as idiots? Is only one of those political?

And maybe you would be more comfortable in a society where people can't speak their minds?

 

I had to go back to find what you were referring to, but I agree that the rules of this site should be enforced equally. They are website rules. We agree to abide by them in order to participate. Has nothing to do with freedom of speech. 

Edited April 15, 2020 by Muckraker
Skipped a word

[milehiiu]

9 minutes ago, Muckraker said:

I had to go back to find what you were referring to, but I agree that the rules of this site should be enforced equally. They are website rules. We agree to abide by them in order to participate. Has nothing to do with freedom of speech. 

I wrote the rules. Including the one about politics.  However, I have no longer the power to enforce them. Though I spend a ton of time on HSN. I know the mods are not able to spend as much time as me. So they may miss things from time to time. My suggestion.  PM a moderator. Link the thread.  I do know they are more than fair.  And will take all requests/concerns into consideration. We've got a great set of moderators.

And thanks for being a great member of HSN 3.0 for as long as you have been.

Edited April 15, 2020 by milehiiu

[Lostin76]

2 minutes ago, Muckraker said:

I had to go back to find what you were referring to, but I agree that the rules of this site should be enforced equally. They are website rules. We agree to abide by them in order to participate. Has nothing to do with freedom of speech. 

They should. And I shouldn't use other people's ability to get away with it to get away with it myself.

I have to be honest though, this subject is really starting to press in on us here. Too many people we know are testing positive and too many people are dying. Our colleagues are stuck on the front lines and I worry about them every day. We are losing over 700 people a day to this and are just worried about what's next. When people push for reopening b/c their communities haven't been hit yet and asking us to trust investors and the government, I just can't.

[Lostin76]

3 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

I wrote the rules. Including the one about politics.  However, I have no longer the power to enforce them. Though I spend a ton of time on HSN. I know the mods are not able to spend as much time as me. So they may miss things from time to time. My suggestion.  PM a moderator. Link the thread.  I do know they are more than fair.  And will take all requests/concerns into consideration. We've got a great set of moderators.

Mile, I know the rules. And as a liberal a**hole living in Brooklyn, I try to be especially aware of them. But, I will admit this topic is tough for me. I shouldn't have went there with the toddler and the diaper.

[milehiiu]

Just now, Lostin76 said:

Mile, I know the rules. And as a liberal a**hole living in Brooklyn, I try to be especially aware of them. But, I will admit this topic is tough for me. I shouldn't have went there with the toddler and the diaper.

Oh.  You are still on my most favored member list.  And what you are going through in NYC is beyond imaginable.  Stay strong.