Coach Mike Woodson Megathread

[Boiler Sam]

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

To me it appears that recruiting is drying up and how it sounds right now those 25 recruits are looking elsewhere. He offered 35 players in the 24 class and got 1 player.  You just can't keep a coach because if a couple of recruits go elsewhere if you fire him.

If you keep Woody because of the 2025 recruits, you are committing to TWO more seasons, because if you fire him after the 2024-25 season those 2025 signees will all be released from their LOIs anyway. 
 

To me the bigger question is do you want Dolson making the next hire. 

[IU Scott]

25 minutes ago, Boiler Sam said:

If you keep Woody because of the 2025 recruits, you are committing to TWO more seasons, because if you fire him after the 2024-25 season those 2025 signees will all be released from their LOIs anyway. 
 

To me the bigger question is do you want Dolson making the next hire. 

I have no problem with Dolson at all. Most of our other sports seems to be doing well or looking up except for the men's basketball program.

[HoosierDom]

14 hours ago, Seeking6 said:

For the he must go now crowd. Look at who we've been on for a couple years in recruiting. For the main 4-5 guys in 25 if I said we would land 4 of them because of the kids/families belief in Woodson, appeal of IU, NIL... would that make you give pause to the he must leave now?

Or do you think a new coach could come in and pick things right up and recruit Haralson, Sisley, Mullins, Brown,etc....

Disappointing year but it is a factor. So is hiring and firing every single 4 year cycle. These are factors that have to be considered. I mean the only reason a guy like May would come here is because of his history....and the same for Pearl but otherwise this job (because of the hiring and firing) has lost it's appeal. For 20 years it's been a Coaching cemetery. That cycle has to stop. 

Do we have committed recruits that I haven't heard about? I see no reason to think Woodson will have success with 2025 recruits. Even with his job seemingly secure, he basically whiffed on 2024. I'm sure the negative recruiting will go through the roof if Woodson is given the chance to continue going after these 2025 kids. If we had a big-time class already committed, I could at least see the argument, but we don't, and Woodson won't be able to get one.

[Boiler Sam]

17 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I have no problem with Dolson at all. Most of our other sports seems to be doing well or looking up except for the men's basketball program.

Probably would help if he was able to make the hire without interference from folks pushing their old cronies. 

[IUFLA]

15 minutes ago, HoosierDom said:

Do we have committed recruits that I haven't heard about? I see no reason to think Woodson will have success with 2025 recruits. Even with his job seemingly secure, he basically whiffed on 2024. I'm sure the negative recruiting will go through the roof if Woodson is given the chance to continue going after these 2025 kids. If we had a big-time class already committed, I could at least see the argument, but we don't, and Woodson won't be able to get one.

I think it bears pointing out only 8 of the top 100 kids in the 2025 class have committed anywhere... 

[jojo123]

Here is what speaks volumes as to if Woody can recruit and attract talent. We had no shooters on this years team, but we had an open scholarship. And even with the portal. He could not or would not get a shooter. Why? You say he wants to win? Does he know talent? If so why the open scholarship was left open with a glaring need? 

[OGIUAndy]

4 hours ago, IUDan93 said:

We have done less with more than any other program. This has put the fanbase in the position where they need to make a choice between frustration and bitterness, or deciding to invest much less time and energy into following the team. What I dislike is how many fans express their frustrations, anger, etc. about the state of the program.  CMW wants to win more than any

?? UK had 7 players in the NBA All Star game this year. They last won a championship in 2012. IU hasn't been a consistently good program since the 90s. But Calipari is the poster boy for mediocrity and doing less with more than anyone in the country. 

Edited February 25 by OGIUAndy

[13th&Jackson]

4 minutes ago, jojo123 said:

Here is what speaks volumes as to if Woody can recruit and attract talent. We had no shooters on this years team, but we had an open scholarship. And even with the portal. He could not or would not get a shooter. Why? You say he wants to win? Does he know talent? If so why the open scholarship was left open with a glaring need? 

He was worried about the luxury tax 

[jojo123]

1 minute ago, 13th&Jackson said:

He was worried about the luxury tax 

Lol

[BGleas]

9 minutes ago, jojo123 said:

Here is what speaks volumes as to if Woody can recruit and attract talent. We had no shooters on this years team, but we had an open scholarship. And even with the portal. He could not or would not get a shooter. Why? You say he wants to win? Does he know talent? If so why the open scholarship was left open with a glaring need? 

Agree or disagree, the argument can be made that there wasn't a top-flight transfer guard that was going to come because we had XJ and Galloway returning. Those guys, if healthy, were always going to play a lot of minutes. 

If I remember correctly, I think i was even saying that last offseason. 

But for a team that is so bad at shooting, you're telling me there wasn't a Nick Zeisloft type that we could have added? 

A guy that was a straight shooter and maybe not super high on the transfer rankings lists? Remember, Zeisloft averaged like 6ppg at Ill St., and Crean took a ton of heat for that recruitment, but surrounded by talent, Ziesloft was a very key piece on a Big Ten title/Sweet Sixteen team. 

We couldn't have added one guy like that?

[13th&Jackson]

3 hours ago, IUDan93 said:

CMW wants to win more than any

“The will to win is not nearly as important as the will to prepare to win.Everyone wants to win but not everyone wants to prepare to win. preparing to win is where the determination that you will win, is made. Once the game or test or project is underway, it is too late to prepare to win. The actual game, test or project is just the end of a long process of getting ready, in which the outcome was really determined. So if you want to win, you must want to prepare to win. Once you prepare to win, winning is almost anti climatic." - Bobby Knight

Bobby Knight

[IU Scott]

38 minutes ago, Boiler Sam said:

Probably would help if he was able to make the hire without interference from folks pushing their old cronies. 

For the time being it looks good on the hire of the football coach. It appears he was able to hire the person he wanted and was allowed to add money to get Cig.

[IU Scott]

10 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Agree or disagree, the argument can be made that there wasn't a top-flight transfer guard that was going to come because we had XJ and Galloway returning. Those guys, if healthy, were always going to play a lot of minutes. 

If I remember correctly, I think i was even saying that last offseason. 

But for a team that is so bad at shooting, you're telling me there wasn't a Nick Zeisloft type that we could have added? 

A guy that was a straight shooter and maybe not super high on the transfer rankings lists? Remember, Zeisloft averaged like 6ppg at Ill St., and Crean took a ton of heat for that recruitment, but surrounded by talent, Ziesloft was a very key piece on a Big Ten title/Sweet Sixteen team. 

We couldn't have added one guy like that?

That is where I have a problem is that neither X or Galloway are good enough to promise big minutes to. If he went into the off season thinking I need an upgrade at the guard position and went hard after good guards.

[IUFLA]

14 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Agree or disagree, the argument can be made that there wasn't a top-flight transfer guard that was going to come because we had XJ and Galloway returning. Those guys, if healthy, were always going to play a lot of minutes. 

If I remember correctly, I think i was even saying that last offseason. 

But for a team that is so bad at shooting, you're telling me there wasn't a Nick Zeisloft type that we could have added? 

A guy that was a straight shooter and maybe not super high on the transfer rankings lists? Remember, Zeisloft averaged like 6ppg at Ill St., and Crean took a ton of heat for that recruitment, but surrounded by talent, Ziesloft was a very key piece on a Big Ten title/Sweet Sixteen team. 

We couldn't have added one guy like that?

I think along with that you have to figure in how much NIL money was available as well...

And I know some find it distasteful to even consider that, but it's a part of the landscape now however you slice it...Playing time matters, but in this day and age earning opportunities are a huge consideration...

[BGleas]

1 minute ago, IUFLA said:

I think along with that you have to figure in how much NIL money was available as well...

And I know some find it distasteful to even consider that, but it's a part of the landscape now however you slice it...Playing time matters, but in this day and age earning opportunities are a huge consideration...

That's partly why I chose Zeisloft as my comp here. He averaged 6ppg at Illinois St before coming to IU. 

That type of guy isnt going to require a big NIL payout or promise of playing time, yet can still have a material impact. 

[HoosierDom]

23 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Agree or disagree, the argument can be made that there wasn't a top-flight transfer guard that was going to come because we had XJ and Galloway returning. Those guys, if healthy, were always going to play a lot of minutes. 

If I remember correctly, I think i was even saying that last offseason. 

But for a team that is so bad at shooting, you're telling me there wasn't a Nick Zeisloft type that we could have added? 

A guy that was a straight shooter and maybe not super high on the transfer rankings lists? Remember, Zeisloft averaged like 6ppg at Ill St., and Crean took a ton of heat for that recruitment, but surrounded by talent, Ziesloft was a very key piece on a Big Ten title/Sweet Sixteen team. 

We couldn't have added one guy like that?

I have a really hard time believing that any top kid was scared to come in and compete with Galloway. At the very least, there was plenty of room for a guard to come in and get back-up minutes at both the 1 and the 2 - likely even the 3, depending on the kid.

[Fkfootball]

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

I have no problem with Dolson at all. Most of our other sports seems to be doing well or looking up except for the men's basketball program.

Coaches hired by Fred Glass.

[BGleas]

29 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

That is where I have a problem is that neither X or Galloway are good enough to promise big minutes to. If he went into the off season thinking I need an upgrade at the guard position and went hard after good guards.

Kind of leads to my biggest disappointment/frustration to this point. 

Given Woodson's own comments at times during his first two seasons, and how we lost to teams with skill, athleticism and multiple playmakers (Miami for example, but several others), I was expecting an overhaul to the system/style last offseason. 

Yet, we came back with the same two bigs in the paint, lack of shooting, lack of guard talent, lack of playmaking, etc., etc.

At this point you just have to believe that this is what Woodson wants the team to look like, and I don't like that. 

[tdhoosier]

16 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Agree or disagree, the argument can be made that there wasn't a top-flight transfer guard that was going to come because we had XJ and Galloway returning. Those guys, if healthy, were always going to play a lot of minutes. 

If I remember correctly, I think i was even saying that last offseason. 

But for a team that is so bad at shooting, you're telling me there wasn't a Nick Zeisloft type that we could have added? 

A guy that was a straight shooter and maybe not super high on the transfer rankings lists? Remember, Zeisloft averaged like 6ppg at Ill St., and Crean took a ton of heat for that recruitment, but surrounded by talent, Ziesloft was a very key piece on a Big Ten title/Sweet Sixteen team. 

We couldn't have added one guy like that?

I’m more concerned that guards looked at how the offense is ran and simply said: ‘nope’.

If it really was a ‘minutes issue’ it’s not because of Trey and X. It’s because Woody plays 2 bigs at the same time. Woody’s old school line-ups eat up the minutes for potential guards because only 2 guards/wings are on the floor at the same time. MM should be a 4 (with Walker as a back up) and we should have 3 guards/wings on the floor. If he does that, then there will magically be more minutes for a guard transfer. But he doesn’t.

And it’s his line up history that will haunt us again this off-season. Bet. It’s already been rumored he’s going to go after another 5, now that he missed on Queen. 

4 out/1 in, my arse. 

[BGleas]

1 minute ago, tdhoosier said:

I’m more concerned that guards looked at how the offense is ran and simply said: ‘nope’.

If it really was a ‘minutes issue’ it’s not because of Trey and X. It’s because Woody plays 2 bigs at the same time. Woody’s old school line-ups eat up the minutes for potential guards because only 2 guards/wings are on the floor at the same time. MM should be a 4 (with Walker as a back up) and we should have 3 guards/wings on the floor. If he does that, then there will magically be more minutes for a guard transfer. But he doesn’t.

And it’s his line up history that will haunt us again this off-season. Bet. It’s already been rumored he’s going to go after another 5, now that he missed on Queen. 

4 out/1 in, my arse. 

Completely agree. I remember when the Ledlum recruitment was going down, I was hoping we'd land him as a 4, but didn't want him if it was going to be as a wing. 

MM is a college 4. I even feel bad for Banks. I understand he hadn't exactly earned minutes, but he's also been played completely out of position. He's not a spot-up shooting or driving wing, he's a college 4. 

Put these guys out there at the 4 surrounded by dynamic guards and wings, and maybe they and the overall product looks better. 

 

[Artesian_86]

Sorry if this has already been posted, I found this interesting…

 

[BGleas]

Another thing that doesn't make sense for the "XJ and Galloway meant we couldn't add another guard" stance, is how did we add Reneau when we already had TJD and Race?

How did we add Michael Durr when we already had TJD and Race?

How did we add Walker and Sparks when we already had Ware and Reneau?

There wasn't a guard that can shoot anywhere willing to come in and compete for minutes? 

 

[IUProfessor]

I don't have the time to dig it up / confirm it now, but I've read somewhere that Tennessee had more returning backcourt talent than we did, yet still managed to land Knecht. Remember, Mgbako signed relatively late in the spring, so there was plenty of time to add a difference maker at the 2/3 before that.

Edit: So, put differently, I don't buy that we couldn't land a talented wing due simply to X and Galloway returning. We still had starters minutes available at the 2/3 until Mgbako signed up.

Edited February 25 by IUProfessor

[dgambill]

1 hour ago, 13th&Jackson said:

“The will to win is not nearly as important as the will to prepare to win.Everyone wants to win but not everyone wants to prepare to win. preparing to win is where the determination that you will win, is made. Once the game or test or project is underway, it is too late to prepare to win. The actual game, test or project is just the end of a long process of getting ready, in which the outcome was really determined. So if you want to win, you must want to prepare to win. Once you prepare to win, winning is almost anti climatic." - Bobby Knight

Bobby Knight

Favorite Knight quote…and I think 1000% relevant when evaluating the current IU program.

[tdhoosier]

19 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Completely agree. I remember when the Ledlum recruitment was going down, I was hoping we'd land him as a 4, but didn't want him if it was going to be as a wing. 

MM is a college 4. I even feel bad for Banks. I understand he hadn't exactly earned minutes, but he's also been played completely out of position. He's not a spot-up shooting or driving wing, he's a college 4. 

Put these guys out there at the 4 surrounded by dynamic guards and wings, and maybe they and the overall product looks better. 

 

I admittedly drank the kool-aid on the whole idea that Mgbako could be a 3. He’s improved a lot this year, but he’s being forced to defend on the perimeter more, and that’s not where he’s comfortable. If his defensive assignments were opposing 4’s I think he’d be in foul trouble a lot less and he’d have more rebounds. On the other end, he’d pull defenders out of the paint. 

If I’m being honest - and i hate saying this - it’s Malik that doesn’t fit. I think he thinks he’s a 4 and Woody thinks he’s a 4 because why else are we searching for another 5? I think Malik is a 5 who’s not good at rebounding. The sooner this can be accepted, the better the chance we may turn the corner.