Pacers vs Cavs Series

[rico]

Bad call or not.....the P's squandered away another golden opportunity.

[Stlboiler23]

5 hours ago, btownqb said:

5 finishes in that segment alone that confirm what I said. 

If only he had used his left hand lol. 

[IU Scott]

9 hours ago, Indykev said:

This Pacer team is to soft. James should have eaten hard wood by now. Drive at will and no one knocking him on his butt. I miss the 80's NBA.

As a longtime Pacer fan I so use to the Pacers getting shafted by officials. It was the 4 point play from Larry Johnson of the Knicks or the game winning shot by Ewing after taking 4 steps to the basket.  It was game 7 of the eastern Conference finals against the Bulls where the Pacers had a big lead in the first half but the refs took it away.

Also I wish we could have a Dale Davis who was an enforcer just to go out there and knock some people on their butt. Today those would be flagrant fouls so in today's NBA you can't just go out there and head hunt.

[IU Scott]

9 hours ago, JerseyHoosier said:

And that's what happens when you give the best player in the game 3.0 seconds to beat you. Ugh. 

Another NBA rule that I hate is letting teams get the ball at the hash mark after a time out.  it use to be half court but now it is a 3/4 court which makes it to easy for a game winning shot.  I don't understand why you are rewarded for just calling a timeout.

[Billingsley99]

9 hours ago, Stlboiler23 said:

This. And I love how people say “well Pacers would’ve still lost by one” without realizing that things would’ve been way different if we were up 2. Could he have still hit the shot? Of course, but it was far from a certainty as I’m sure the defensive strategy would’ve been different. 

It might be a little easier to hit a shot with no pressure miss overtime vs miss and lose.  Even for the best player on the planet.  Like you said hopefully defensive alignment would be different

[Billingsley99]

8 hours ago, Hoosier82 said:

He put the ball on the corner of the glass, it had zero chance of going in, goaltending or not but the call was still missed. Should never have been in that situation. The easy play call is to clear out, drive to the basket, dish to who ever LeBron was supposed to guard (you know he’s going to leave bis assignment to go for the block) and take the jumper leaving little to no time on the clock. Make it and go home for game 6 series win or miss and play for overtime. It’s really not that difficult. No coach who knows what he’s doing and has control over his team draws up that play. 

I only watched once and might be wrong but I thought Lebron was on Vic at the end. Not sure 

[Stlboiler23]

1 minute ago, Billingsley99 said:

I only watched once and might be wrong but I thought Lebron was on Vic at the end. Not sure 

You’re right. Pretty sure Lebron switched onto Vic midway through the position but he was definitely the one guarding Vic. Vic beat him to the hole but Lebron recovered and goaltended lol. 

[MSHoosier]

I appreciate Victor calling the officials out. In the NBA,  they will walk all over the Pacers unless they  keep fighting the front office.

[dwtaylor1055]

First and foremost, the NBA walks over anyone facing Lebron and James Harden(Unless you are the Warriors).  Two, a rule change needs to be made that any shot made under two mins during the 4th quarter at the rim needs to be reviewed, regardless if the call on the court was goal tending or not as this has a major impact as to how the end of the games play.  Three, the free throw shooter cannot enter the lane before the ball his the goal(Lebron has done this all series) but when Lance enters the lane as a defender during a free throw attempt before the ball hits the rim and gets nailed for a lane violation that horse crap.  Just my two cents

[Seeking6]

One thing that drives me crazy about sports talk guys/gals, radio or tv, local or national...is how quick they just say you can't let the game come down to a call. I say BS to that. Did the goaltending call (lack of) impact the game? If yes...people should be ticked. Don't spin, don't justify, don't say blah blah blah...fact remains the call impacted the game. Simple as that.

We can discuss, speculate everything that happened in the 3rd quarter for the Pacers. Fact remains. That had NOTHING to do with what transpired on final plays. People always say instant replay stinks because it extends games,etc....if it means an extra few minutes to make the right call in the playoffs? Change the rule to be able to review. The stakes are so high in the playoffs. 5-10 extra minutes isn't going to change anything. 

[Billingsley99]

There is no denying LBJ  talents but I cannot stomach the amount of whining and he is on a refs ear every single dead ball opportunity. 

[IU Scott]

2 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

There is no denying LBJ  talents but I cannot stomach the amount of whining and he is on a refs ear every single dead ball opportunity. 

The whole Cleveland team whines and Calderon just drives me nuts watching him.  Justified or not games like last night is why the NBA gets a bad rap from conspiracy theorist saying the games are rigged some how.

[dwtaylor1055]

10 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

One thing that drives me crazy about sports talk guys/gals, radio or tv, local or national...is how quick they just say you can't let the game come down to a call. I say BS to that. Did the goaltending call (lack of) impact the game? If yes...people should be ticked. Don't spin, don't justify, don't say blah blah blah...fact remains the call impacted the game. Simple as that.

We can discuss, speculate everything that happened in the 3rd quarter for the Pacers. Fact remains. That had NOTHING to do with what transpired on final plays. People always say instant replay stinks because it extends games,etc....if it means an extra few minutes to make the right call in the playoffs? Change the rule to be able to review. The stakes are so high in the playoffs. 5-10 extra minutes isn't going to change anything. 

I agree 100%!  Victor made a good point, if that blocked shot is deemed goal tending, the last play the Cavs ran may have been a different play.  I understand not stretching a game out during the regular season but during the playoffs thats inexcusable.  

[Hoosierhoopster]

4 hours ago, IU Scott said:

As a longtime Pacer fan I so use to the Pacers getting shafted by officials. It was the 4 point play from Larry Johnson of the Knicks or the game winning shot by Ewing after taking 4 steps to the basket.  It was game 7 of the eastern Conference finals against the Bulls where the Pacers had a big lead in the first half but the refs took it away.

Also I wish we could have a Dale Davis who was an enforcer just to go out there and knock some people on their butt. Today those would be flagrant fouls so in today's NBA you can't just go out there and head hunt.

God I hated that 4-point play. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

3 hours ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

First and foremost, the NBA walks over anyone facing Lebron and James Harden(Unless you are the Warriors).  Two, a rule change needs to be made that any shot made under two mins during the 4th quarter at the rim needs to be reviewed, regardless if the call on the court was goal tending or not as this has a major impact as to how the end of the games play.  Three, the free throw shooter cannot enter the lane before the ball his the goal(Lebron has done this all series) but when Lance enters the lane as a defender during a free throw attempt before the ball hits the rim and gets nailed for a lane violation that horse crap.  Just my two cents

It's actually much worse, imo, with Harden. He routinely, and I mean routinely wraps his arm around the defender as he makes a move and he always gets the call against the defender, when he not only initiates the contact, he literally has his arm wrapped around the defender. It's flat out crazy, I've watched announcers break it down, laughing, at how it's obviously all Harden and yet the refs call a foul on the defender. 

That said, and this will probably be unpopular, my impression most of the time is that the call is not star treatment, it's the speed of the game and the skill of guys like LBJ and Harden, that is, that the refs do actually miss the calls. LBJ's goal tend was fast, I didn't see it in real time. I don't think the refs did either. There were plays before that like the step on the line that should've been caught and the balance I guess is how much review do we want to see after plays -- that goal tend was a critical missed call, but the flip side is I don't think we, as fans, want a series of video monitor reviews to close a game. No question the refs blew some calls, and that goal tend was awful and should be reviewed, but where you draw the line is difficult, I think, in terms of the amount of review.

[Stlboiler23]

14 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

God I hated that 4-point play. 

still gives me nightmares. 

[BGleas]

33 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

It's actually much worse, imo, with Harden. He routinely, and I mean routinely wraps his arm around the defender as he makes a move and he always gets the call against the defender, when he not only initiates the contact, he literally has his arm wrapped around the defender. It's flat out crazy, I've watched announcers break it down, laughing, at how it's obviously all Harden and yet the refs call a foul on the defender. 

That said, and this will probably be unpopular, my impression most of the time is that the call is not star treatment, it's the speed of the game and the skill of guys like LBJ and Harden, that is, that the refs do actually miss the calls. LBJ's goal tend was fast, I didn't see it in real time. I don't think the refs did either. There were plays before that like the step on the line that should've been caught and the balance I guess is how much review do we want to see after plays -- that goal tend was a critical missed call, but the flip side is I don't think we, as fans, want a series of video monitor reviews to close a game. No question the refs blew some calls, and that goal tend was awful and should be reviewed, but where you draw the line is difficult, I think, in terms of the amount of review.

My big gripe with the refs is always that the NBA claims the refs watch tape of every game they ref afterwards. So, these refs have been reffing a guy like Harden for 8-9 years and watching tons of tape. Or, take a guy like Ginobili (who I like). He's been in the league forever. So, if you're a ref who's been in the NBA 10+ years you've reffed Manu a lot and watched a ton of tape, so if you see him out of the corner of your eyes flailing his arms and falling to the ground then shouldn't you know well enough that 9 times out of 10 he just he's flopping? 

You know Harden pushes off to get open and then kicks his legs to draw fouls. So, if you see Harden coming off a screen, kick his head back and flail his arms, and then fall down on his jumper, shouldn't you know that most likely he pushed off, grabbed the defender, and then faked contact as if the defender shot him?

 

[Hoosierhoopster]

45 minutes ago, BGleas said:

My big gripe with the refs is always that the NBA claims the refs watch tape of every game they ref afterwards. So, these refs have been reffing a guy like Harden for 8-9 years and watching tons of tape. Or, take a guy like Ginobili (who I like). He's been in the league forever. So, if you're a ref who's been in the NBA 10+ years you've reffed Manu a lot and watched a ton of tape, so if you see him out of the corner of your eyes flailing his arms and falling to the ground then shouldn't you know well enough that 9 times out of 10 he just he's flopping? 

You know Harden pushes off to get open and then kicks his legs to draw fouls. So, if you see Harden coming off a screen, kick his head back and flail his arms, and then fall down on his jumper, shouldn't you know that most likely he pushed off, grabbed the defender, and then faked contact as if the defender shot him?

 

Oh yeah you definitely have a point, and it does make you wonder at times, but I just don't buy into there being some kind of conspiracy that the League or refs are deliberately not calling fouls on superstars to promote them (although it does happen, out of some kind of respect for them, I just don't think it's the norm). I tend to chalk it up to ineptitude most of the time. The officiating this season has been flat out abominable. I mean horrible, all over the place, not just for the stars. I'm not sure why. Has there been ref turnover? Are there a bunch of relatively new NBA refs out there? I don't know, but it's been a bad, bad year for officiating.

Let me qualify this a bit -- I do think there's star treatment (I mean, well, that's kind of obvious), in that stars tend to get the benefit of the doubt, but I don't think the refs just turn the other way and ignore their fouls, or goal tends, etc. Harden is a master with the ball, his handle is insanely good, his movement is so fluid and deceptive, and I do think the refs usually just miss what he's doing.

[BGleas]

8 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Oh yeah you definitely have a point, and it does make you wonder at times, but I just don't buy into there being some kind of conspiracy that the League or refs are deliberately not calling fouls on superstars to promote them (although it does happen, out of some kind of respect for them, I just don't think it's the norm). I tend to chalk it up to ineptitude most of the time. The officiating this season has been flat out abominable. I mean horrible, all over the place, not just for the stars. I'm not sure why. Has there been ref turnover? Are there a bunch of relatively new NBA refs out there? I don't know, but it's been a bad, bad year for officiating.

Let me qualify this a bit -- I do think there's star treatment (I mean, well, that's kind of obvious), in that stars tend to get the benefit of the doubt, but I don't think the refs just turn the other way and ignore their fouls, or goal tends, etc. Harden is a master with the ball, his handle is insanely good, his movement is so fluid and deceptive, and I do think the refs usually just miss what he's doing.

Agree. My post wasn't meant in support of the "star treatment" theory, was just quoting your post as a jump into the thing about refs watching film, etc., and yet it doesn't seem to pay any benefit in their officiating. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

3 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Agree. My post wasn't meant in support of the "star treatment" theory, was just quoting your post as a jump into the thing about refs watching film, etc., and yet it doesn't seem to pay any benefit in their officiating. 

Seriously, it's frustrating as all get out. 

What's most obnoxious -- to me -- is the post-game acknowledgment reports they've been doing  -- the 'oh yeah, we missed that call', you know, the one that decided the game, my bad' -- that, for some reason, doesn't seem to have helped anything. It's been so ridiculously bad this year.

[rico]

I am as pissed as anyone.  But the fat lady hasn't sung yet.  Regroup, and re-focus.  I know the boys can do it, despite the refs.

[NotIThatLives]

5 hours ago, IU Scott said:

The whole Cleveland team whines and Calderon just drives me nuts watching him.  Justified or not games like last night is why the NBA gets a bad rap from conspiracy theorist saying the games are rigged some how.

don't know where to jump in this conversation.  I have watched the replay in slow mo multiple times and can barely tell that it nicked the glass just as Lebron is blocking it.  Even if that was reviewable like an NFL call, I'm not positive the refs would have been able to overturn it with indisputable evidence.  Not to mention we had a call just go our way with Thad and Lebron that appeared Thad touched last.  

And I'm with you.  The whining is awful.  I don't have kids but if I did, I would not allow them to watch this.  I don't want them thinking they can go and argue with the refs after every freaking play.  Victor is guilty too.  Throwing his hands up and then talking to the refs at dead balls and during free throws.  I really think his head has been off allowing how the Cavs are grabbing and holding and him not getting calls.  He has seemed to me to be either trying to avoid getting blocked or taking contact on drives, but I wish he would drive with the intention of I'm going to get fouled here and attack.  

[Hoosierhoopster]

4 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

but I wish he would drive with the intention of I'm going to get fouled here and attack.  

Exactly what he needs to do

[Danomatic]

It’s just frustrating as a Pacers fan, knowing that we were in that game despite of our terrible guard play and then the NBA pretty much admits the officials got it wrong the next day...

 

[Seeking6]

Here's the thing about officiating. These idiots will give us a few calls on Friday when we're up 15. Hey NBA...don't give us the makeup calls Friday. We'll take them in Game 7....idiots.