Arizona Post Game Thread

[NCHoosier32]

5 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said:

**cough** Sean Miller...

i got you.  sincerely apologize.  somehow i managed to completely forget about that.  when i am in the stands at our high school games or travel ball games and hear parents calling teams cheaters, it just always gets me.  i mean 99% of the time the officials aren't biased, they are just bad.  100% of the time, the team getting the calls have nothing to do with what the officials are calling.  i thought that was what you were saying.  my bad.   

[mrflynn03]

It certainly didn't help Arizona had a 7 footer and a 6'11" guy on the floor with another coming off the bench.  

[5fouls]

1 hour ago, NCHoosier32 said:

do we have a theory that AZ paid off the officials?

No, AZ did not pay the officials.  But, the officials were biased for whatever reason.  Maybe they were overwhelmed by 'Zonas athleticism.  Maybe they were PAC 12 officials.  Maybe Bill Walton supplied them with some good 'stuff'.  But, bottom line, it was biased officiating.  It just was.

[btownqb]

IMO

Race shot well yesterday(duh), his activity was better, he wasn't perfect though.... but in these type of games vs elite/tall big men. Especially teams with multiple... 

His inability to create for himself/others really shows. 

I think that is just as big of a "reason" for the loss as "TJD doesn't play well vs. Tall guys". 

Edited December 11, 2022 by btownqb

[ArizonaHoosier]

I can say that the UofA fans I was around were very descent. They were getting fed up with the refs as well. They wanted the refs to let them play because, according to the fans I was around, "They will not get that type of treatment in the tournament". They viewed IU as a very talented team and have the same opinion as we have. It is good for each team to have some big time games early season.

Other than that, it was a fun game. I was pleasantly surprised with the UofA fans (at least those that were around me).

[Zuckerkorn]

TL;DR - We're improved and pretty good, but just not there.  Woody has us on the right track and knows what he's doing.

 

At the college level all teams are flawed, with very rare exceptions.  Arizona is pretty close to being complete - two bigs, one with the power game and the other more finesse.  They compliment that with 3-pt snipers, and that combo makes it really hard to match up with them.  IMO, their biggest "weakness" may be not having a quick penetrator, but overall that doesn't seem to hurt them much.

We, on the other hand, still lack  multiple (consistent) threats from outside (and it'd be nice if one or two had some size).  Our front court can muscle with 75% of our opponents but dudes like Ballo or Cockburn are major challenges for us.  TJD & Reneau can counteract it, to an extent, with quickness & moves on offense.  Teams with good frontcourts know they can backoff our other players and neutralize our bigs (see Rutgers game).  That's when shot making needs to takeover, sometimes it does but not reliably.

We will need some "pieces" added after this season that aren't already on the roster to take the next jump.  Optimistically, I really believe Mike Woodson knows this (and more) far better than his predecessors and will work toward his vision.

Finally, will we ever take advantage of the talent out there beyond the U.S.?  Practically every good program has, at one time or another, had major contributors from other countries.  Who have we had - Uwe, Perea, ???  Don't get me wrong, I don't really love the international approach of AZ with the majoity of the roster being foreigners, but dang, our complete rejection of that arena hasn't helped us a bit.

[Zuckerkorn]

23 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

i got you.  sincerely apologize.  somehow i managed to completely forget about that.  when i am in the stands at our high school games or travel ball games and hear parents calling teams cheaters, it just always gets me.  i mean 99% of the time the officials aren't biased, they are just bad.  100% of the time, the team getting the calls have nothing to do with what the officials are calling.  i thought that was what you were saying.  my bad.   

No problem.  Fans do tend to do that.

I do have to wonder how much of AZ's current roster may have been drawn in by shady dealings.  Maybe none, but things DID happen with that program that makes it a legitimate question.

[Dawg Bawls]

11 hours ago, Zuckerkorn said:

Strangely, I feel good after that loss. I like watching this team compete infinitely more than I have for years.  It's clear we just don't have the firepower yet to be serious contenders.  We've gone from mediocre (at best) to pretty good in a season and a half.

Woodson knows what he's got.  He knows what he needs.  He'll get it done, I'm betting.

We went from red riders .. to sidearms and M4.... we need a Barrett .50 or at least a .300 win mag

[Zuckerkorn]

1 minute ago, Dawg Bawls said:

We went from red riders .. to sidearms and M4.... we need a Barrett .50 or at least a .300 win mag

During the first half it felt like we had to play a perfect game to beat them.  We didn't, but no IU team in the last many years would would have hung with them like we did. 

[Dawg Bawls]

Just now, Zuckerkorn said:

During the first half it felt like we had to play a perfect game to beat them.  We didn't, but no IU team in the last many years would would have hung with them like we did. 

We would have folded by 13:00 in 1st ... heart can only take you so far... sometimes you need a bat

[btownqb]

Did we start out the game 0-7 from 3? 

I believe we were 1-10 at one point. Hit 9 of our last 15 3s, right? 

[btownqb]

1 minute ago, Dawg Bawls said:

We would have folded by 13:00 in 1st ... heart can only take you so far... sometimes you need a bat

Yeah that bat is in the form of a 6'6 215lbs 5 star FR PG. 

Edited December 11, 2022 by btownqb

[Hoosier4Life53]

I watched Arizona on the road against Utah and they looked average at best. Vegas was like a home game for them, and they gave us their best shot early on, and we didn’t match their intensity. I know it’s easy to say, but we have to be ready from the opening tip, and not dig ourselves a 19 point hole and expect to come back against good teams like Arizona.

[IUFLA]

50 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

No, AZ did not pay the officials.  But, the officials were biased for whatever reason.  Maybe they were overwhelmed by 'Zonas athleticism.  Maybe they were PAC 12 officials.  Maybe Bill Walton supplied them with some good 'stuff'.  But, bottom line, it was biased officiating.  It just was.

They were Pac 12 officials...

But whatever league they work with, this has to be the most blatant non-call I've ever seen...

In what league, down to biddy ball, is that not goaltending? 

Coach Woodson went after them pretty good, and they didn't call a tech, so they knew they'd missed it...

We didn't do ourselves any favors in a lot of phases of the game (blocking out....again) but I do give Arizona credit... When we made a run, they answered every time... 

[slojoe]

This is the 2d game that we've suffered an early run that put us away.  I'm sure having JHS out was a factor, but I don' t know how much.  We have to find a way to avoid these streaks so we have a chance to pull out the victory.

I think X getting 2 fouls early really hurt.  I think pressure on the guards is the way to slow up UA's offense, but with JHS out and X on the bench we couldn't do that.  I don't think double teams would work.

Yes, the refs were lousy but we have to learn to defend w/o fouling too much.  We had the same problem v. Rutgers.

I don't think we can put much of this on TJD.  We need a second consistent scorer.  We have a lot of options but no one who can do this consistently.

[Indykev]

 

[tdhoosier]

Haha. I’m learning right now that the call on Reneau was a flop. It was so loud in the arena after the non goaltending call that I thought a tech was called on Woody. I’m not sure if it was seen on TV, but they were holding Woody back -keeping him away from the officials.

That combined with the constant shuffling of feet by Dallo and the moving screens seemed so blatant and was beyond frustrating. 

This morning I’m still not sure why we reverted to our old ineffective strategy of trying to post up TJD against bigger/stronger guys. Maybe it was a result of Gallo being forced to be the PG for long stretches, but didn’t we figure out a way to beat Cockburn by doing some pick and rolls and pulling him away from the hoop? TJD didn’t show up like we needed him to, but he also needs to be put in a better position to succeed. That said, maybe part of that answer was on the bench - we missed JHS last night. And those 2 early fouls on X were a game changer. 

[Rev_AK]

1 hour ago, mrflynn03 said:

It certainly didn't help Arizona had a 7 footer and a 6'11" guy on the floor with another coming off the bench.  

IU has been lacking size for a very long time. Seeing a lot of criticism of Trayce, but our roster could use a 7’ banger, and have needed one for years ( see 2 games vs Purdue on the schedule) . Dickinson, Kofi, and teams with large bigs have always been a weakness for Trayce- but maybe that is more because he is 6’9” and less about anything else. What I wanted to see would have been to mirror what Rutgers did to us, and double team Ballo when he got the ball down low. Threatens to leave an open shooter, but might have saved a foul or two and some fatigue for Trayce. Bad matchup for us. Happy with the heart they played with

[NCHoosier32]

i do have to say that i didn't see it coming at all the Purdouche would be ranked higher than us this year.  i thought that was finally over.  makes me nauseas.  

[IUDan93]

2 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

 XJ was 11 and 11, and Zona went on their run with him on the bench with a bummer of a second foul. He played more than good enough to win yesterday, just wish he’d have not been in early foul trouble. 

I am not an XJ hater, it just really feels like he often makes bad plays/decisions right at the time that we are starting to build momentum. Of course, he also does make some nice plays to help us build momentum.  My point is that we need to have the advantage in the back court if the other team has the advantage in the front court. So far it seems that when JHS is playing, XJ plays better. I imagine that if JHS was in when XJ went out, we wouldn't have had the run put on us.

So, if XJ played well enough for us to win, and we should agree that MK, TB, TG, and RT played well enough for us to win, than it falls on a combination of TJD and no JHS for the loss. TJD is not going to be an All-American if he has to play every game against that size and skill. Since they took away our best player, we had to be better than them in the other areas. We were not.

[Artesian_86]

2 hours ago, RoadToZion said:

Fun game and we played just fine without our second best player. Everyone lighten up. Arizona is really really good. International talent galore. These losses don’t bother me…it’s a hell of a lot better than playing a game against some community college and winning 100-40. 

Please don’t take this the wrong way. It may just be me, but was anyone else a bit taken back by the number of international players on that team? There are 19 players listed on their roster and 8 of them are from over seas and the majority of them are starters… 

[KoB2011]

11 minutes ago, IUDan93 said:

 

So, if XJ played well enough for us to win, and we should agree that MK, TB, TG, and RT played well enough for us to win, than it falls on a combination of TJD and no JHS for the loss. TJD is not going to be an All-American if he has to play every game against that size and skill. Since they took away our best player, we had to be better than them in the other areas. We were not.

I do not agree on RT, despite him having his best game of the year. He and TJD both got outplayed by their bigs, and that’s not even getting into JG and MR. We were completely outplayed upfront. There’s a lot that goes into the “why” we got outplayed upfront, but not a single guy upfront outplayed their man.

Combine that with some atrocious calls and that’s the game. 

[IUFLA]

I was watching, I think it was the Big 10 Network, and one of the analysts pointed out that the Arizona game and the Kansas game we both Coach Woodson's doing (where a lot of our other pre-conference games were already set) to prepare IU for the conference season...Kinda like Izzo does for MSU (although how much it has helped them in the past few years is debatable)...I think that's the way this program SHOULD swing...

The goal is the Big 10 Championship, and past that, let's just see...

[Purdue7]

Guessing CMW is not happy with the defense….AZ got whatever they wanted 

good news is there isn’t a team in Big Ten like that offensively 

 

 

 

[rico]

34 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I was watching, I think it was the Big 10 Network, and one of the analysts pointed out that the Arizona game and the Kansas game we both Coach Woodson's doing (where a lot of our other pre-conference games were already set) to prepare IU for the conference season...Kinda like Izzo does for MSU (although how much it has helped them in the past few years is debatable)...I think that's the way this program SHOULD swing...

The goal is the Big 10 Championship, and past that, let's just see...

Yeah, I have been harping about our non-con schedule for years.  Glad to see us toughen it up this year.