Purdue Post Game Thread

[IUCrazy2]

2 hours ago, Billingsley99 said:

Not sold that Woodson is a great recruiter. He can sell it to the guys that are 5 stars because what IU can offer but he cannot recruit or construct a competent team.  I am sick of hearing about 5 stars I am sick of IU fans bragging about the number of great recruits we bring it. I just want some guys that can knock down some shots, play hard and not get punked in your own gym by Purdue. Every college team i watch have  multiple guys that just make plays and do it on both ends yet we cant find any. We have what many seem to think are great coaches on the bench and they may be but all I see are a bunch of yes men. I don't care how many stars, I don't care what state or country you live in just go find some guys that have a little basketball IQ can hit some open shots and some free throws play hard and CARE is that asking too much. Some how Painter finds those guys, some how many mid majors find those guys yet IU cannot. I stated posting recently because like I said before we do not play hard or smart and are poorly coached. We are in a very bad place and there are no signs of things to get better. X is who he is and Woody gambled on him even doubled down and lost. If Ware or Mbako played for PU in Painters system they would be 1st team all big and maybe much better. I hate PU as much as anyone but they are what Indiana used to be and where we as fans wish we were if being honest. Braden Smith would not be very good in Woodys system but for Painter they are talking about him as an all american. Our system is broken and I just hope and pray they find a way to fix it. Just find guys that want to be here and compete and not be an embarrassment to the program is a good place to start. Rant over. 

I think you touched on a major one for me.  I have felt far too often the past decade or so that I care about the outcomes of these games more than the players do.  The Purdue guys were clowning us last night and our guys were kind of like "whatever..."  

We feel like a team of mostly paid mercenaries.  These guys have all sorts of Indiana legacy around them on a daily basis and I feel they still don't get "it".  There are some fans that are willing to put up with about anything, but I am not one of them.  I have my own bills to pay and having people come to me asking for money to pay guys a six figure salary who look like Ware did on that floor dive play by Edey is laughable.  I would be embarrassed to even ask. 

I just have had the feeling that the IU players enjoy too much of the fun and not enough of the work that was put in to build the foundation they are cracking.  I don't know, the irritation has been building for me all year and I have been trying to remain positive and give the benefit of the doubt but my well has dried up.

[NCHoosier32]

i think there is something said for a team to have an identity.  i think you look at Purdue, Wisconsin, maybe even Michigan St. and you know their identity every year.  tough team.  hard nosed.  solid team D.  unselfish, smart ball.  not sexy or fun to watch, but identity.  syracuse was always their 2-3.  some teams play fast.  some teams dominate the boards on both ends.  etc, etc.  what is our identity?  

[NCHoosier32]

i know some don't agree, but i still don't credit the staff for "developing" JHS.  he came in a 1 and done.  they were going to play him as a SG and he wouldn't have flourished as much.  when X went down, there was no choice, so they played him at PG where he could create for himself and teammates.  i still argue had X not gotten hurt, JHS would not have had nearly the season he had.  

[KoB2011]

1 minute ago, NCHoosier32 said:

 what is our identity?  

[IUCrazy2]

2 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

i think there is something said for a team to have an identity.  i think you look at Purdue, Wisconsin, maybe even Michigan St. and you know their identity every year.  tough team.  hard nosed.  solid team D.  unselfish, smart ball.  not sexy or fun to watch, but identity.  syracuse was always their 2-3.  some teams play fast.  some teams dominate the boards on both ends.  etc, etc.  what is our identity?  

Soft team that is more about style than substance.

[5fouls]

1 hour ago, 13th&Jackson said:

It’s another game on another night in this very uncomfortable time to be a Louisville Cardinal. Attendance is announced at over 10,000, but fewer than 5,000 dour faces dot the 22,090-seat arena. That’s inside. Outside? You know it’s bad when barstools are empty in a city built on bourbon.

After years spent ranked among the most highly attended teams in college basketball, Louisville slipped to 22nd in average attendance last season. Average ticket sales were announced at 12,497 per game, per NCAA records. In 2019-20, the last time things were cooking around here, Louisville announced an average crowd of 16,658. That ranked seventh nationally.

But the real problem is, the Cards aren’t drawing anywhere near what’s being announced at games. According to university records requested by The Athletic, last year’s actual through-the-gates attendance averaged 6,557 per game.

This year is worse for the men. The first three regular-season home dates drew 16,037, total. Or 5,435 per game. Season ticket sales have fallen from 10,501 to 9,099.

I honestly had no idea that attendance was that bad and I work just a few blocks from the Yum! Center.  

I have no interest in watching UL, but if tickets can be had cheaply when UNC or Duke come to town, I just might look into it.

[MSHoosier]

2 hours ago, Billingsley99 said:

Not sold that Woodson is a great recruiter. He can sell it to the guys that are 5 stars because what IU can offer but he cannot recruit or construct a competent team.  I am sick of hearing about 5 stars I am sick of IU fans bragging about the number of great recruits we bring it. I just want some guys that can knock down some shots, play hard and not get punked in your own gym by Purdue. Every college team i watch have  multiple guys that just make plays and do it on both ends yet we cant find any. We have what many seem to think are great coaches on the bench and they may be but all I see are a bunch of yes men. I don't care how many stars, I don't care what state or country you live in just go find some guys that have a little basketball IQ can hit some open shots and some free throws play hard and CARE is that asking too much. Some how Painter finds those guys, some how many mid majors find those guys yet IU cannot. I stated posting recently because like I said before we do not play hard or smart and are poorly coached. We are in a very bad place and there are no signs of things to get better. X is who he is and Woody gambled on him even doubled down and lost. If Ware or Mbako played for PU in Painters system they would be 1st team all big and maybe much better. I hate PU as much as anyone but they are what Indiana used to be and where we as fans wish we were if being honest. Braden Smith would not be very good in Woodys system but for Painter they are talking about him as an all american. Our system is broken and I just hope and pray they find a way to fix it. Just find guys that want to be here and compete and not be an embarrassment to the program is a good place to start. Rant over. 

The name Anthony Leal, if he were on another team, comes to mind when thinking about the kind of kids that give us trouble. Wonder if he might have helped last night.

[13th&Jackson]

25 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

I think you touched on a major one for me.  I have felt far too often the past decade or so that I care about the outcomes of these games more than the players do.  The Purdue guys were clowning us last night and our guys were kind of like "whatever..."  

We feel like a team of mostly paid mercenaries.  These guys have all sorts of Indiana legacy around them on a daily basis and I feel they still don't get "it".  There are some fans that are willing to put up with about anything, but I am not one of them.  I have my own bills to pay and having people come to me asking for money to pay guys a six figure salary who look like Ware did on that floor dive play by Edey is laughable.  I would be embarrassed to even ask. 

I just have had the feeling that the IU players enjoy too much of the fun and not enough of the work that was put in to build the foundation they are cracking.  I don't know, the irritation has been building for me all year and I have been trying to remain positive and give the benefit of the doubt but my well has dried up.

The Detroit Pistons are 4-36, but are still getting paid. I doubt they think much about how they're embarrassing "The Bad Boys" legacy. 

[BobSaccamanno]

Ball movement has been really bad even when we win....We have some black holes that make up their mind that they want to shoot.

Dusty would fix that....

https://apnews.com/article/bob-knight-indiana-motion-offense-6df9d9c3668990c002f89a4a60df13e9

[BobSaccamanno]

I have zero problem with Archie or Woody or any IU coach feeling the heat in this job.  The fan base can cascade down on you but only if its warranted.  You will get the greatest support in the history of sports but if you have a team that doesn't move the ball, doesn't block out, doesn't hustle after loose balls, you should feel the glare.  

CCC says he is fighting complacency or softness even before you get to complacency.  That's the mentality I like.

As Robert Palmer once said, "feel the heat."

Edited January 17 by BobSaccamanno

[BobSaccamanno]

28 minutes ago, MSHoosier said:

The name Anthony Leal, if he were on another team, comes to mind when thinking about the kind of kids that give us trouble. Wonder if he might have helped last night.

Knight probably wouldn't even have had X on the team.  But if he did, he'd put him at the end of the bench to (a) send a message and (b) test his mettle.  You'd come out with Leal and Sparks in the lineup if they are hustling, blocking out, etc., in practice.  That gets results.  The starters need to have demands that they must meet.  Not options, demands.

[DWB]

I'm conflicted on Woody. On one hand he doesn't hesitate to get in the grill of a player if there is a screw up. On the other hand it appears (to me) he takes losing far too easily.

In the NBA you lose a boat load of games each season. But you also play 82(?).  Gallo showed more remorse about losing than Woody did, and that was disappointing to me.

With the game so lopsided in the last 10 minutes, I'm surprised Leal & Sparks didn't get playing time.

And several of us have pointed out that we don't have a true leader on or off the court. Closest contestant would be Leal in my book, but he doesn't get playing time to lead on the court except during timeouts. And I've seen him try.

[NotIThatLives]

5 minutes ago, DWB said:

I'm conflicted on Woody. On one hand he doesn't hesitate to get in the grill of a player if there is a screw up. On the other hand it appears (to me) he takes losing far too easily.

In the NBA you lose a boat load of games each season. But you also play 82(?).  Gallo showed more remorse about losing than Woody did, and that was disappointing to me.

With the game so lopsided in the last 10 minutes, I'm surprised Leal & Sparks didn't get playing time.

And several of us have pointed out that we don't have a true leader on or off the court. Closest contestant would be Leal in my book, but he doesn't get playing time to lead on the court except during timeouts. And I've seen him try.

I thought in the pregame someone said he was listed as out for the game.  

[DWB]

1 minute ago, NotIThatLives said:

I thought in the pregame someone said he was listed as out for the game.  

Hadn't heard that. Could very well be, but I was referring to Leal more overall than just the PU game.

[KoB2011]

13 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Knight probably wouldn't even have had X on the team.  But if he did, he'd put him at the end of the bench to (a) send a message and (b) test his mettle.  You'd come out with Leal and Sparks in the lineup if they are hustling, blocking out, etc., in practice.  That gets results.  The starters need to have demands that they must meet.  Not options, demands.

I think Xavier should be gone at this point. I don't think anyone could say I'm not supportive of the players and wanting to see them set up for success on and off the court, but X has had enough chances. His attitude and response to the nut shot the past few games completely seals the deal IMO. 

[IndyResident16]

12 minutes ago, DWB said:

I'm conflicted on Woody. On one hand he doesn't hesitate to get in the grill of a player if there is a screw up. On the other hand it appears (to me) he takes losing far too easily.

In the NBA you lose a boat load of games each season. But you also play 82(?).  Gallo showed more remorse about losing than Woody did, and that was disappointing to me.

With the game so lopsided in the last 10 minutes, I'm surprised Leal & Sparks didn't get playing time.

And several of us have pointed out that we don't have a true leader on or off the court. Closest contestant would be Leal in my book, but he doesn't get playing time to lead on the court except during timeouts. And I've seen him try.

Leal wasn't dressed last night and Sparks can't make a layup. I'd have left my starters in till the end of the game as a form of punishment and embarrassment. And then ran their ass the second the game ended for whatever fans were left to see it. 

[IU Scott]

3 hours ago, NCHoosier32 said:

i honestly expect next year to be worse, but i'll never stop watching Hoosier bball and cheering them on.  and likely be disappointed.  

To me watching bad IU basketball is better than no basketball. Come early April I will be missing college basketball even though I don't think the product is very good.

Edited January 17 by IU Scott

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, jojo123 said:

So what! If money is the ruling factor. We don’t have a level playing field. And where ever money rules there is always a politician and politics involved. 
How did the state of Indiana ruin the greatest high school basketball tournament of all time? State politics changed the game and wanted everyone to win a trophy.  

Could you take the political post to another forum

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, NCHoosier32 said:

i know some don't agree, but i still don't credit the staff for "developing" JHS.  he came in a 1 and done.  they were going to play him as a SG and he wouldn't have flourished as much.  when X went down, there was no choice, so they played him at PG where he could create for himself and teammates.  i still argue had X not gotten hurt, JHS would not have had nearly the season he had.  

He didn't come in as a one and done at all. He wasn't projected to be a first rounder when the season started

[IUCrazy2]

52 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

The Detroit Pistons are 4-36, but are still getting paid. I doubt they think much about how they're embarrassing "The Bad Boys" legacy. 

Exactly.  I assume you were just doubling down on my point?

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, MSHoosier said:

The name Anthony Leal, if he were on another team, comes to mind when thinking about the kind of kids that give us trouble. Wonder if he might have helped last night.

On Assembly Call last night they said Leal wasn't dressed due to some sort of injury 

[John S]

7 hours ago, Maedhros said:

Recruiting is my concern as well.

Coaches need to be allowed bad seasons. Matt Painter is the media's darling now, but he had some rough years after the baby boilers class. A decent portion of their own fan base wanted him gone, and it's fairleigh likely he would have been fired from IU after nine years, just as Crean was. 

Painter learned. A few recruiting misses, misevaluations, and a roster won't come together the way you want. Could very well be that's what happened to Indiana this year. There have been some concerning long term trends in the Woodson era, sure, but I would argue lack of complementary skills and overall team chemistry to be the reasons we aren't having the same success as the past two seasons, and those can be solved through recruiting.

But more than the results of any one game, or this season, the recruiting results haven't been what we needed. Jalen Hood-Schifino and Malik Reneau were great gets. Kel'el Ware has been mostly fantastic, and Mgbako is rounding into the player we expected. But three of those four were or are likely to be one year rentals. Where are the pieces around them? Liam is a great get, with seemingly a combination of skills we haven't seen in Bloomington in a long time. He's not going to fix this roster himself. 

It's possible to write this season off as one where things just didn't come together. Maybe Woodson bet big on Xavier Johnson, missed on some other guys in the '23 prep/portal class, and now has play the roster he has, not the roster he wants. I hope so. But after some bad bets and misses in the '24 prep class, it's starting to become a trend. This gets turned around in the '24 portal window, or it likely doesn't get turned around at all.

If Woodson did in fact bet on XJ, he either didn’t watch the tapes on him or is a lousy evaluator.  

[OGIUAndy]

14 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

On Assembly Call last night they said Leal wasn't dressed due to some sort of injury 

I don't think people understand, Leal has been hurt A LOT. He was basically hurt all last season. He was listed as "out" last night. 

[NCHoosier32]

26 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

He didn't come in as a one and done at all. He wasn't projected to be a first rounder when the season started

we can agree to disagree on this one.  i agree that i like bad IU bball better than no IU bball though!

[John S]

4 hours ago, Billingsley99 said:

Not sold that Woodson is a great recruiter. He can sell it to the guys that are 5 stars because what IU can offer but he cannot recruit or construct a competent team.  I am sick of hearing about 5 stars I am sick of IU fans bragging about the number of great recruits we bring it. I just want some guys that can knock down some shots, play hard and not get punked in your own gym by Purdue. Every college team i watch have  multiple guys that just make plays and do it on both ends yet we cant find any. We have what many seem to think are great coaches on the bench and they may be but all I see are a bunch of yes men. I don't care how many stars, I don't care what state or country you live in just go find some guys that have a little basketball IQ can hit some open shots and some free throws play hard and CARE is that asking too much. Some how Painter finds those guys, some how many mid majors find those guys yet IU cannot. I stated posting recently because like I said before we do not play hard or smart and are poorly coached. We are in a very bad place and there are no signs of things to get better. X is who he is and Woody gambled on him even doubled down and lost. If Ware or Mbako played for PU in Painters system they would be 1st team all big and maybe much better. I hate PU as much as anyone but they are what Indiana used to be and where we as fans wish we were if being honest. Braden Smith would not be very good in Woodys system but for Painter they are talking about him as an all american. Our system is broken and I just hope and pray they find a way to fix it. Just find guys that want to be here and compete and not be an embarrassment to the program is a good place to start. Rant over. 

Very good points. We all can watch some Big 12 ball (8 teams ranked) to see very good PG play.  Most of them are not 5 star guys, but can run an offense well in yr 2.  They know how to move the ball, make quick decisions and can shoot.   Our guards, even after 4 years are below average.