OGIUAndy Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 (edited) 17 minutes ago, IUFLA said: We can argue about it til the cows come home, but in my eyes, it was nothing more than another thing to criticize Woodson about... A 13th kid on the roster, especially one that we could have gotten in the time frame that we had, wasn't going to make a difference to our season... That's pretty much the main thing I have said about Woody this entire season. And not playing more small ball at times. But that was the catch 22. He didn't have the guard talent/depth to do it. Edited April 22 by OGIUAndy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Hoosier Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 1 minute ago, IUFLA said: You're mixing apples and oranges... If Woodson wanted to upgrade talent, and gave Gunn and Banks their walking papers, that's one thing... Worrying about the 13th scholarship after that fact is another... Ok but the 13th scholarship doesn’t automatically have to be the worst player on the team. For example, if we add that Humrichous player with the last scholarship available, I don’t think anyone would say he’s our worst player. The fact that the 13th scholarship last season wasn’t used as an opportunity to upgrade talent is the issue. Missing out on an NAIA level talent isn’t the issue. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 Just now, btownqb said: It's all relative!! They should have been sent packing! Same thing with holding onto JG a year too long! The conversation started with "why wasn't that 13th scholarship filled" and now has morphed into Gunn and Banks needing to be cut loose and our talent upgraded... So, yeah, it's apples and oranges... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlinedavid Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 Here's the issue I have.....it's not like Cupps, Gunn and Banks were the equivalent to the random guys Crean was getting to fill out a roster in '08. Cupps was Ohio Mr. Basketball and Gunn and Banks were both 4* recruits. Did Gunn and Banks have much of an impact the year prior? No, but they were behind JHS who developed faster than anyone thought, X, Galloway and Bates, who wound up having a decent season at Mizzou. It's not like they were sitting behind nobodies either. If you're recruiting 4* guards like Gunn and Banks, at some point....gotta see if they can play. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 (edited) 20 minutes ago, IUFLA said: If you remember, Joey Hart was a name to know at one time...Does anybody really think he would have made much of a difference last season? Love ya man, but at this point you're trying to argue that elephant dung don't stink. Can you not see the urgency from the staff in the transfer portal this year vs. last year? Woody didn't get any guards and Mgbako fell into his lap. Last year there was room to get a guy BETTER than one who'd accept a 13th spot. So if you want to use Joey Hart as an example, I'll still say yes (to what degree, I don't know). But I'll also say we should've have had 10 prospects better than Joey Hart on the radar. And it's not true we didn't know about Newton until August. Maybe officially, but there was uncertainty in April on whether or not he'd play because the procedure he had is really tough to recover from. Iron sharpens iron. 13 is better than 12. Edited April 22 by tdhoosier 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 18 minutes ago, IUFLA said: We can argue about it til the cows come home, but in my eyes, it was nothing more than another thing to criticize Woodson about... A 13th kid on the roster, especially one that we could have gotten in the time frame that we had, wasn't going to make a difference to our season... All day long. Just glad the cooler heads approach i.e. emotional intelligence is prevailing. Gave the man a chance to correct some things and so far nobody has improved their roster more than IU has this offseason. Of course I know what comments are coming on the last sentence. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlinedavid Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 3 minutes ago, btownqb said: It's all relative!! They should have been sent packing! Same thing with holding onto JG a year too long! You're going to cut loose two 4* recruits after their freshman year? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 Just now, Zlinedavid said: You're going to cut loose two 4* recruits after their freshman year? Absolutely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drroogh Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 (edited) 7 minutes ago, HoosierDPU95 said: And just like a Purdue championship run, this thread has derailed. What is this thread about again? Oh wait the portal! My bad! Edited April 22 by Drroogh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indykev Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 Illinois fans not liking the rumors 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuswingman Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 21 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Sometimes you gotta trust to get the results you want... I don't think Woodson was guilty of anything other than giving Gunn and Banks a chance to earn their spots... Woodson wasn't to blame for going into the season with an injury prone PG, Galloway and a bunch of unknowns/unproven backups? Yea, I don't agree with that one bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuswingman Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 21 minutes ago, IUFLA said: If you remember, Joey Hart was a name to know at one time...Does anybody really think he would have made much of a difference last season? Naming players that didn't work out doesn't really prove the point you think it does. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuswingman Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 (edited) 20 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Hindsight is always 20/20... His job WASN'T on the line though...He was trying to get kids to develop and contribute... It doesn't always work out... It isn't hindsight when people were pointing out our guard deficiency before the season even started and then were proven correct. Why should his job have to be on the line in order to put the best product on the floor or best depth? Edited April 22 by iuswingman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 1 minute ago, iuswingman said: Woodson wasn't to blame for going into the season with an injury prone PG, Galloway and a bunch of unknowns/unproven backups? Yea, I don't agree with that one bit. Up until he broke his foot against Kansas, XJ had played in every game (118) at Pitt and IU and started 115 of them...That's injury prone? And if you remember, there was talk of him coming back at the end of 20-23...so he was pretty much healed, then had a whole off season to recover as well... And every team has unknowns/unproven backups...That's where you hope kids develop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier987 Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 (edited) Banks and Gunn were not serviceable players at this level. Recruitment rankings are wrong all the time. Look where each of them ended up...one went to arguably the worst P5 school and the other is at a non power 5 school. They were not good. End of a 2 year story. Edited April 22 by Hoosier987 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 2 hours ago, ephul said: Get a backup rim protector at the 5 and call it a year, barring a no brainer move Gotta use all 13. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlinedavid Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 5 minutes ago, btownqb said: Absolutely A freshman averages 9 minutes, 2.4 points, 2.1 boards, doesn't have enough of a sample size to truly evaluate his 3 point shooting. Another freshman in a different year averages 20 minutes but only 3.6 points and 1.7 boards and shoots 18% from three. Sounds comparable to Gunn and Banks, right? Congratulations, you just cut Juwan Morgan and Trey Galloway. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuswingman Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 Just now, IUFLA said: Up until he broke his foot against Kansas, XJ had played in every game (118) at Pitt and IU and started 115 of them...That's injury prone? And if you remember, there was talk of him coming back at the end of 20-23...so he was pretty much healed, then had a whole off season to recover as well... And every team has unknowns/unproven backups...That's where you hope kids develop Maybe not injury prone but he played in 11 games in 22/23. You think relying on him and a freshman PG as backup was a good idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 1 hour ago, OGIUAndy said: Of all the flak Woody took this year, the most deserved was not using that scholarship. X hadn't been healthy or played much, so it was silly not to bring in another experienced guard. I think that was mostly a product of swinging for the fences and missing. No question, IU tried to get more guards last year, but the candidates they offered went elsewhere and by the time that all played out, there wasn't much left to get. I'm guessing less than Leal and Cupps level players at that point. Banks and Gunn, I think the staff had much greater expectations that never panned out. I kept hearing how great those two looked in practice and yet, it never translated on the floor. Had those two made a nice soph jump, we likely wouldn't be having this conversation and probably make the dance. On using the 13th scholarship, I wouldn't unless it's an upgrade. If Anthony Leal is IU's floor, that's a danged good roster. He's more than capable of shooting from distance and playing fundamental basketball. Keep that last one for the MgBako that falls in your lap late. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlinedavid Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 4 minutes ago, Hoosier987 said: Banks and Gunn were not serviceable players at this level. Yeah, recruiting rankings are wrong all the time, but neither of those two had a chance to establish themselves, and the biggest jump often comes between the freshman and sophomore year. They were behind X, JHS, Galloway and Bates, who did prove to be a serviceable high-major player at Mizzou this past year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kdug Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 30 minutes ago, IUFLA said: So you coach...You never give kids a chance? Chances aren’t given they’re earned. Gunn and Banks hadn’t done anything to have earned a rotation spot going into last year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 35 minutes ago, IUFLA said: A 13th kid on the roster, especially one that we could have gotten in the time frame that we had, wasn't going to make a difference to our season... This is pretty much what I just said...by the time it became apparent there were holes that wouldn't be filled, there weren't any difference makers to be had. IU had enough to practice with already. If you want to criticize Woody for anything, it would be for chasing talented guards that didn't come and then not having enough time to execute a backup plan. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGIUAndy Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 (edited) 5 minutes ago, FKIM01 said: I think that was mostly a product of swinging for the fences and missing. No question, IU tried to get more guards last year, but the candidates they offered went elsewhere and by the time that all played out, there wasn't much left to get. I'm guessing less than Leal and Cupps level players at that point. Banks and Gunn, I think the staff had much greater expectations that never panned out. I kept hearing how great those two looked in practice and yet, it never translated on the floor. Had those two made a nice soph jump, we likely wouldn't be having this conversation and probably make the dance. On using the 13th scholarship, I wouldn't unless it's an upgrade. If Anthony Leal is IU's floor, that's a danged good roster. He's more than capable of shooting from distance and playing fundamental basketball. Keep that last one for the MgBako that falls in your lap late. But this exactly when you should use it on the portal one year guy from a lower level program. Someone with some experience, they didn't have to be great, but at least seasoned. Easier said than done maybe, but you have X and Cupps as PGs. That's a bit risky imho. Edited April 22 by OGIUAndy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 1 minute ago, Zlinedavid said: A freshman averages 9 minutes, 2.4 points, 2.1 boards, doesn't have enough of a sample size to truly evaluate his 3 point shooting. Another freshman in a different year averages 20 minutes but only 3.6 points and 1.7 boards and shoots 18% from three. Sounds comparable to Gunn and Banks, right? Congratulations, you just cut Juwan Morgan and Trey Galloway. The numbers and avgs don't matter a hill of beans to me. I wouldn't have OFFERED CJ Gunn. Evaluation is done in practice. Again, those avgs are nil to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 1 minute ago, iuswingman said: Maybe not injury prone but he played in 11 games in 22/23. You think relying on him and a freshman PG as backup was a good idea? I think Cupps was a backup to XJ and Galloway at the point, with hopes that Gunn would develop and get time at the 2, and Leal picking up spot minutes... The point has been made by @Zlinedavid that you have to give kids, especially sophomores, a shot to develop and earn playing time...And that's true... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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