Iowa Post Game Thread

[btownqb]

we beat Rutgers with JHS ... he filled it up last night. 

[Purdue7]

6 minutes ago, btownqb said:

10 mins --- Race-- 9p 4-4FG 3r 1a 1s 1b ... no turnovers .... frustrating, man. 

Race was playing great Defense on Murray too 

iowa is a great matchup for Race…

[Artesian_86]

4 minutes ago, Purdue7 said:

Race was playing great Defense on Murray too 

iowa is a great matchup for Race…

.....Like I just posted earlier, Race going out was the potential dagger to last night's game. He was having his way and doing  whatever he wanted with ease. If Race doesn't go down, we win by 12.

[IUCrazy2]

27 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

My point is that it cant be the best IU team of the last 50 years if it didnt even win conference.

With Anderson and Meeks, the individual parts of the '91-'92 team may have been sexier, but the whole of the team was not as good.

The '92-'93 team was 17-1 in conference and was darn near unbeatable late in the year until Henderson went down.  

That's fair.  Those 2 teams played when I was in middle school.  I think that is like peak "fan boy" timeframe for most kids.  They are generally my measuring stick for every team thereafter (I was obviously pretty young for 81 and 87 and a twinkle in my Dad's eye in 76.)

I was just making the point that sometimes really good teams may have a few less accolades because of other in conference teams.

[Inequality]

44 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

Malik gets abused by rbraca.  Trayce attempts to guard Murray and Opie gets an offensive rebounds put back as our team watches instead of blocks out.  

Probably the most criminal call of the night is the no call from Perkins elbowing JHS clearly in the face.  

I think the call was JHS face fouling Perkins elbow.

[Zuckerkorn]

1 hour ago, NotIThatLives said:

@Zuckerkorn

Explain what is confusing?  I took the time to rewatch and breakdown every play Geronimo was at least somewhat involved.  He had little to do with the big run IN THE FIRST HALF and played solid overall.  2 mistakes, one running away from the ball during the press break and touching the rim which was waived no goaltend.  

Some of us can have quality back and forth, some can't.   

Some of us see things differently.  I thought JG was a liability throughout the game.  I thought he played out of position on defense quite a bit.  His FT shooting is abysmal.

Perhaps you and others don't agree with that assessment.

[btownqb]

Just now, Inequality said:

I think the call was JHS face fouling Perkins elbow.

haha.. dammit, Jalen. Quit head butting other people's elbows!! That is foul everytime! 

[13th&Jackson]

9 minutes ago, Rev_AK said:

But after 1 1/2 seasons, I’m having my doubts about Woodson. 
Not saying I’m ready to get rid of him, just want to say that there have been some squandered opportunities.

I felt at the time that Woodson was a transition hire. Partially an effort by Dolson to quiet the "Indiana Guy" faction (especially among the older, former players).  I hoped he'd stabilize the program and get it on an upward trajectory by the time he stepped aside. He can still do that and has already made progress in some areas. The injuries are a major setback for this season, but next year was going to be major roster rebuild anyway. TJD, Race, XJ and Kopp will all be gone. JHS staying, and adding some significant players around him, will be critical for hopes of stability.

I really hate to think of what the vibe around the program would be if not for the comeback against MI in the BTT. If MI had hung a 20 point loss on the Hoosiers and they had missed the NCAAT, Yikes. Going into the BTT, IU had lost 7 of 9 with the only wins against bad MD and MN teams. 

That's why I was always suspect about this year's pre-season lofty projections. Prior to going on a mini-roll in the BTT, we had beaten two upper division B1G teams all year (OSU and PU). I felt we'd be better and several B1G teams were taking a step back, but I thought the pre-season B1G favorite was a stretch. 

So, I guess I'd say my expectations haven't been as high as some others. Based on early season play, I felt this team (if healthy) was a solid top 25 team and a lock for a mid single digit NCAAT seed. Which would have been a definite improvement over the Archie era and last season. 

 

[Zuckerkorn]

5 minutes ago, btownqb said:

haha.. dammit, Jalen. Quit head butting other people's elbows!! That is foul everytime! 

The important question is whether it was an inadvertant or intentional face foul...

[D-BONE]

1 hour ago, BGleas said:

Gotta disagree with your first paragraph. I don't mean this as a shot at you whatsoever, but I hate when people say that defense is all about effort, etc.  

It's just not true. While effort is a huge part, it's just as much about system, understanding positional defense and spacing, communication, IQ, and all of those other things. 

A guy like Miller Kopp isn't near the athlete that JG or Bates are, but he's a much better defender then both. Miller Kopp knows the system, he communicates, he understands the rotations and when to switch, hedge, etc., etc. He's not perfect and he does make mistakes, but for example, JG's defensive issues last night weren't about effort or grit, it was about getting completely lost because he doesn't understand or know what to do. 

It's the same as a player on offense that doesn't know the plays or constantly turns it over, you need to know the system, rotations, situational defense, etc., as much as you need to play with effort and grit. 

Fair enough. Let me put it another way, Iowa out-gritted and and out system-ed us last night. It was obviously not a case where we didn't give effort. 

[NotIThatLives]

9 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said:

Some of us see things differently.  I thought JG was a liability throughout the game.  I thought he played out of position on defense quite a bit.  His FT shooting is abysmal.

Perhaps you and others don't agree with that assessment.

1st half, pretty good.  2nd half was flat awful and really an indictment on the coaching staff for leaving him in so long.  Especially after totally being lost at the 16 minute mark to give Murray a wide open.  At that point a cha ge had to be made and it wasn't until we were down 3.  

[southsidehoosier]

49 minutes ago, btownqb said:

we beat Rutgers with JHS ... he filled it up last night. 

We haven’t had our full starters in any of our B1G games…what if we had X and Race last night? JHS at Rutgers? 
 

Man we’re snakebitten team 

[btownqb]

4 minutes ago, southsidehoosier said:

We haven’t had our full starters in any of our B1G games…what if we had X and Race last night? JHS at Rutgers? 
 

Man we’re snakebitten team 

Yeah, and it's not like we didn't do some pretty good things when we had our full array. Frustrating. 

[Seeking6]

Usually I can let things go pretty go quickly but this one is still stinging. O free throws until Fran T, 29 after. 7 points Race held Murray to before tackle basketball byproduct injury....30 after. The T on JG, Rescinded T....even after all of that it was a one possession game with a chance to win on the road.

That game just frickin stings.

[Zuckerkorn]

49 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

1st half, pretty good.  2nd half was flat awful and really an indictment on the coaching staff for leaving him in so long.  Especially after totally being lost at the 16 minute mark to give Murray a wide open.  At that point a cha ge had to be made and it wasn't until we were down 3.  

I'd think part of the reason at the end of the game was FT shooting.  Iowa fouled smartly down the stretch.

[IUCrazy2]

2 hours ago, NotIThatLives said:

It was a nice little move about 12 feet out, he slightly nudges the guy off with a forearm but it wasn't bad at all.  Nothing like Perkins clearly elbowing JHS in the face.  

I believe you meant to say, "Nothing like JHS's face egregiously fouling Perkins on the elbow."

[Maedhros]

2 hours ago, BGleas said:

Gotta disagree with your first paragraph. I don't mean this as a shot at you whatsoever, but I hate when people say that defense is all about effort, etc.  

It's just not true. While effort is a huge part, it's just as much about system, understanding positional defense and spacing, communication, IQ, and all of those other things. 

A guy like Miller Kopp isn't near the athlete that JG or Bates are, but he's a much better defender then both. Miller Kopp knows the system, he communicates, he understands the rotations and when to switch, hedge, etc., etc. He's not perfect and he does make mistakes, but for example, JG's defensive issues last night weren't about effort or grit, it was about getting completely lost because he doesn't understand or know what to do. 

It's the same as a player on offense that doesn't know the plays or constantly turns it over, you need to know the system, rotations, situational defense, etc., as much as you need to play with effort and grit. 

Yes, and it's the same for rebounding. Malik stood out to me last night. He never had a chance at some of those balls, not because he wasn't trying, but because he wasn't in position and was trying to get around someone in a yellow jersey all night.

In general, we use phrases like "out-toughed" too often. Usually it's not a matter of being tough, it's a failure to execute.

[NotIThatLives]

17 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said:

I'd think part of the reason at the end of the game was FT shooting.  Iowa fouled smartly down the stretch.

Yeah we didn't score a field goal the last 3 something minutes of the game.  

[BGleas]

34 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

Yes, and it's the same for rebounding. Malik stood out to me last night. He never had a chance at some of those balls, not because he wasn't trying, but because he wasn't in position and was trying to get around someone in a yellow jersey all night.

In general, we use phrases like "out-toughed" too often. Usually it's not a matter of being tough, it's a failure to execute.

Completely agree! 

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, NotIThatLives said:

Yeah we didn't score a field goal the last 3 something minutes of the game.  

Iowa only hit 1 shot in the last 5 minutes but hit 11 free throws

[KoB2011]

Not that it really matters, but Jordan Geronimo "issues" in the first half:

• ~10:30 missed two free throws
• 9:15 slips to the wrong spot (he went behind a defender instead of the open pocket, which would have been an easy basket) results in a JHS turnover, then he commits a weak foul for an easy 'and 1' on the other end
• 4:16 (first play after Race injury) hits a three, great job JG.
• 3:27 offensive foul on Geronimo (pretty weak, but he did use his elbow to create space)
• 3:02 great transition block
• 2:42 misses front end of 1 and 1
• 2;27 delay of game - I think we all agree this was a very weak call even if we had been warned. Not going to fault JG for this
• 2:05 JHS throws it straight to JG and he isn't looking, this is a JHS turnover that is 100% JG's fault.
• 1:24 JG late pass to TJD that would have been a dunk, results in a steal
• :50 should have been the goaltending on JG. As much as I'm not going to fault him for the delay of game, I'm not going to let that slide. That was an awful play and he got lucky the refs made an awful call.
• I thought I remembered one more turnover that wasn't credited to him, but was his fault similar to the two JHS turnovers, but I didn't find it in my skimming. 

So yeah, I guess that is better than the second half with the defensive issues. But it certainly isn't good.

The good news is that is almost all correctable. He's oozing with potential and most of that is mental mistakes that I hope he can clean up. He's probably going to disproportionately impact the rest of the season moving forward at this point. 

[NotIThatLives]

8 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Not that it really matters, but Jordan Geronimo "issues" in the first half:

• ~10:30 missed two free throws
• 9:15 slips to the wrong spot (he went behind a defender instead of the open pocket, which would have been an easy basket) results in a JHS turnover, then he commits a weak foul for an easy 'and 1' on the other end
• 4:16 (first play after Race injury) hits a three, great job JG.
• 3:27 offensive foul on Geronimo (pretty weak, but he did use his elbow to create space)
• 3:02 great transition block
• 2:42 misses front end of 1 and 1
• 2;27 delay of game - I think we all agree this was a very weak call even if we had been warned. Not going to fault JG for this
• 2:05 JHS throws it straight to JG and he isn't looking, this is a JHS turnover that is 100% JG's fault.
• 1:24 JG late pass to TJD that would have been a dunk, results in a steal
• :50 should have been the goaltending on JG. As much as I'm not going to fault him for the delay of game, I'm not going to let that slide. That was an awful play and he got lucky the refs made an awful call.
• I thought I remembered one more turnover that wasn't credited to him, but was his fault similar to the two JHS turnovers, but I didn't find it in my skimming. 

So yeah, I guess that is better than the second half with the defensive issues. But it certainly isn't good.

The good news is that is almost all correctable. He's oozing with potential and most of that is mental mistakes that I hope he can clean up. He's probably going to disproportionately impact the rest of the season moving forward at this point. 

Another problem for JG last night is the Murray is a freaking stud.  But the mental game for him is just excruciating and we are talking 3 years in.  He's slow footed and I don't see the explosiveness, nor confidence I hoped he'd have by now.  And has he gotten any stronger?  3 years in, playing against Trayce and Race, he still gets pushed around.  Astonishing really.  

But back to Murray.  We didn't have anyone close to Race that could guard him.  

Team defense has to pick it up big time or we are doomed.  

[NotIThatLives]

13 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Iowa only hit 1 shot in the last 5 minutes but hit 11 free throws

With 7 minutes to go in the 2nd half I had to stop my rewatch.  Anyone else want to give a breakdown of the fouls given and if warranted?  After rewatching the first 33 minutes I am leaning more that the refs played a major role in this game once you add it all up.  

[Sea Turtle]

Frans son said that Indiana had no idea how to attack a zone. 

Some things never change. Good job Indiana!

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2023/01/06/iu-basketball-iowa-connor-mccaffery-says-hoosiers-were-lost-in-zone-defense-mike-woodson/69784165007/

Edited January 6, 2023 by Sea Turtle

[KoB2011]

58 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

Another problem for JG last night is the Murray is a freaking stud.  But the mental game for him is just excruciating and we are talking 3 years in.  He's slow footed and I don't see the explosiveness, nor confidence I hoped he'd have by now.  And has he gotten any stronger?  3 years in, playing against Trayce and Race, he still gets pushed around.  Astonishing really.  

But back to Murray.  We didn't have anyone close to Race that could guard him.  

Team defense has to pick it up big time or we are doomed.  

Yeah completely agree.

While I think X is a better player than Race, I think that injury was something we could more easily overcome than Race. Mostly because of MR and JG not being what we had hoped. 

Our best 5 is now a small ball lineup that involves our two best players having bad backs, and very little depth behind them it appears. What a bummer from what we all through we had 1.5 months ago. 

Edited January 6, 2023 by KoB2011