Transfers with IU Interest

[BobSaccamanno]

He’s interesting. His dad played for the Harlem Globetrotters and really shaped his game.  The dad saw that he’d be tall and trained him to have lead guard skills.  He looks like a savvy player.  Moves very well without the ball, changes speeds nicely, can score on the move and can post up guards.  Needs to work on catch and shoot.  

Woody loves length, switchability, versatility.  I could see him being enamored with him.  

[IUFLA]

8 minutes ago, btownqb said:

So.. you want Mongolian Mike or not? 

My own opinion would be no, I'd like to go with what we currently have...I'm pretty high on Gunn and think between he and Trey the 2 spot will be in good hands...I mean, between Ware, Mgbako, Reneau, and XJ (who said in his latest interview at Hubers he'd be looking to score more this year) I think we have the potential on offense.

But, as always, it's not up to me...And I trust the people who do make the decisions...

Edited June 4, 2023 by IUFLA

[BobSaccamanno]

13 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

My own opinion would be no, I'd like to go with what we currently have...I'm pretty high on Gunn and think between he and Trey the 2 spot will be in good hands...I mean, between Ware, Mgbako, Reneau, and XJ (who said in his latest interview at Hubers he'd be looking to score more this year) I think we have the potential on offense.

But, as always, it's not up to me...And I trust the people who do make the decisions...

Big off season for Gunn in the weight room and improving at game speed at this level.  I think if he’s more physically developed, he can get more comfortable.   He’s got good length and potential.  

Love Newton as a prospect. Great motor and tough attitude.  I just don’t know what kind of shooting he can provide out of the gate without an acclimation period.  He has desire on D but he will have to learn principles and honestly it’s a shock to most freshman as to how hard it is to defend at this level.

Woody did a nice job getting Gunn and Banks some run last year to give them a taste for this level.  I think he can find minutes even if we add a guard.  Honestly if Gunn redshirted to give him a year to develop, he could benefit tremendously.  Some guys can’t add mass overnight.  If you had an injury to X or Trey, I don’t think we are comfortable at guard.  Both of those guys have missed time and play all out so they are susceptible.  

We have had coaches who left minutes for the next guy in line and then we’d have middling seasons.  Woody has brought urgency and he’s going to be more in an earn it mode.  I’m reminded of Knight having a roster of good prospects and he’d keep recruiting hard.  Then when a guy fell off or didn’t improve, we’d have another guy to jump up.  With college kids, some aren’t mature and don’t truly understand the opportunity have and don’t capitalize.  

Woody flat out said they are always looking so I suspect he’s trying to match a final fit to a complementary roster.  With only one slot, he can be selective.  

[jay edwards brother]

For those that are concerned about spots for 24 recruits it seems like Mongolian Mike is interested in getting to the league as soon as possible so he might only stick around for a year. His skill set will give us depth at the guard spot and could give other teams nightmare mismatches @ 6' 8". i say give him a shot and let Woody develop him.

[Drroogh]

I think it’s time for some of the 24 recruits to worry about how long they can wait before committing!!

[13th&Jackson]

1 hour ago, IUFLA said:

XJ (who said in his latest interview at Hubers he'd be looking to score more this year) 

That’s been one of my biggest concerns with the current roster,, XJ looking to score more. He was effective in the pick and roll or getting wide open kick outs. But his shot mechanics aren’t good. As a volume shooter and focal point of the opposing defense, I think the law of averages won’t be in his or the team’s favor. I want him to be a distributor who drives and dishes (or scores at the rim) and takes a couple open threes

[Artesian_86]

I know I’m stating the obvious, but X has to be chomping at the bit to be the impact player Coach Woodson wants/needs him to be. I think X is looking to be a big upgrade and more effective player from when he was playing (pre-injury) to post injury. He had to sit and see the game from a much different point of view. I foresee X as major BIGTEN weapon for IU this year! JMO! 

[Indykev]

2 hours ago, IUFLA said:

But I thought the "hot take" was that we need a shooter? I mean, 31% from 3 isn't terrible, but I was under the impression we'd be more in the market for someone like Reeves...

My opinion is that we have enough developmental players with Gunn, Banks, Newton, and Cupps...I'm not sure of Sharavjamts priorities, but I think he'd be battling those guys for minutes

Reeves is a 5th year guy who hasn't even graduated yet. Thats are I need to know about him. Its possible he wont even be able to transfer in the end. Who knows how many credits he even needs. I'm guessing we'll know this week what Woody thinks.

[Drroogh]

25 minutes ago, Artesian_86 said:

I know I’m stating the obvious, but X has to be chomping at the bit to be the impact player Coach Woodson wants/needs him to be. I think X is looking to be a big upgrade and more effective player from when he was playing (pre-injury) to post injury. He had to sit and see the game from a much different point of view. I foresee X as major BIGTEN weapon for IU this year! JMO! 

I would think one of the biggest things X was able to work on last year was shooting mechanics. I’m thinking working the rust off this summer we could see a big improvement!

[tdhoosier]

22 hours ago, IUFLA said:

My own opinion would be no, I'd like to go with what we currently have...I'm pretty high on Gunn and think between he and Trey the 2 spot will be in good hands...I mean, between Ware, Mgbako, Reneau, and XJ (who said in his latest interview at Hubers he'd be looking to score more this year) I think we have the potential on offense.

But, as always, it's not up to me...And I trust the people who do make the decisions...

Would you not want to fill the last scholarship at all? 

[IUFLA]

2 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

Would you not want to fill the last scholarship at all? 

I think we'd be just fine not filling it...As I said, I'm really high on CJ Gunn to be at the very least the backup 2 we need...

I look at it this way...If we can get a no brainer contributor for this coming season...fine...

If not, I think we shouldn't tie up a scholarship on another development player...24 and 25 are stacked, and we're in the hunt for many of them...And I'm not a big fan of recruiting over kids...

[tdhoosier]

11 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I think we'd be just fine not filling it...As I said, I'm really high on CJ Gunn to be at the very least the backup 2 we need...

I look at it this way...If we can get a no brainer contributor for this coming season...fine...

If not, I think we shouldn't tie up a scholarship on another development player...24 and 25 are stacked, and we're in the hunt for many of them...And I'm not a big fan of recruiting over kids...

It's almost as certain as paying taxes - every year in the offseason we think we are way deeper than what comes to fruition - a combination of injuries and a lack of talent end up hurting us. 

I don't necessarily disagreeing with you about Gunn. I'm just wondering if the era of banking scholarships is gone. With the transfer portal, why risk it? If we need more 24/25 guys then room will be made some way or another. I know some may not like this new reality, but it is what it is. 

Also, I'm a proponent of getting another scholarship player, if for the very least: getting another legit guy for practice/competition. Iron sharpens iron. 

[IUFLA]

11 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

It's almost as certain as paying taxes - every year in the offseason we think we are way deeper than what comes to fruition - a combination of injuries and a lack of talent end up hurting us. 

I don't necessarily disagreeing with you about Gunn. I'm just wondering if the era of banking scholarships is gone. With the transfer portal, why risk it? If we need more 24/25 guys then room will be made some way or another. I know some may not like this new reality, but it is what it is. 

Also, I'm a proponent of getting another scholarship player, if for the very least: getting another legit guy for practice/competition. Iron sharpens iron. 

I try to balance what I feel is the right way to do things, with the new reality you mention...

Take a kid like Hart...If Woody is upfront with him and tells him he'd have to fight his way into the rotation on the practice court, which would be difficult, and he's good being practice fodder with mop up minutes until that happens, and the kid agrees, fine...I don't think you'd find many talented kids that would accept that...Leal seems to be fine with it, but I think he's the exception rather than the rule...

Woody's got a tall order in front of him this year...He's melding the 6 guys that have played for him with 6 who haven't...Not only on the court, but off as well...If we do take one more, "good fit" should always be one of the criteria...

And I believe in giving kids like Gunn and Banks their fair shot...

I guess people wonder why I have faith in CJ...His form is excellent, he's a confident kid, and he's going to work at it...If you watch his high school highlights, you see it...Quick release, get's his feet and body set as the pass is coming, and has all 3 levels of scoring...I know it doesn't always translate, but you've played sports..,You know as I do that it takes some experince as you move up the chain for some kids to really show what they've got...I think he shows it this year...

For what it's worth, here are some of his senior year highlights...Shot off the dribble? Check. Shot off the pass? Check. Midrange? Check. Under duress? Check. 3 point shot? Check...Long, athletic...He'll get the mental part and defense figured out...

And I'll say this...I think Woody is well aware that teams that are long and athletic like most in the SEC, and the ones that did well this year in the tournament are the road forward, Big 10 prototypes be damned...These are the kinds of kids that get us to the next level...

[Indykev]

27 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I try to balance what I feel is the right way to do things, with the new reality you mention...

Take a kid like Hart...If Woody is upfront with him and tells him he'd have to fight his way into the rotation on the practice court, which would be difficult, and he's good being practice fodder with mop up minutes until that happens, and the kid agrees, fine...I don't think you'd find many talented kids that would accept that...Leal seems to be fine with it, but I think he's the exception rather than the rule...

Woody's got a tall order in front of him this year...He's melding the 6 guys that have played for him with 6 who haven't...Not only on the court, but off as well...If we do take one more, "good fit" should always be one of the criteria...

And I believe in giving kids like Gunn and Banks their fair shot...

I guess people wonder why I have faith in CJ...His form is excellent, he's a confident kid, and he's going to work at it...If you watch his high school highlights, you see it...Quick release, get's his feet and body set as the pass is coming, and has all 3 levels of scoring...I know it doesn't always translate, but you've played sports..,You know as I do that it takes some experince as you move up the chain for some kids to really show what they've got...I think he shows it this year...

For what it's worth, here are some of his senior year highlights...Shot off the dribble? Check. Shot off the pass? Check. Midrange? Check. Under duress? Check. 3 point shot? Check...Long, athletic...He'll get the mental part and defense figured out...

And I'll say this...I think Woody is well aware that teams that are long and athletic like most in the SEC, and the ones that did well this year in the tournament are the road forward, Big 10 prototypes be damned...These are the kinds of kids that get us to the next level...

You bring in the best players you can every year. You dont back off and give anyone anything. THEY earn it by working their ass off in practice. When they earn it by beating out others, they'll be better for it.

[tdhoosier]

39 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I try to balance what I feel is the right way to do things, with the new reality you mention...

I will say that the one trait recruits, former players and current players consistently preach about Woody is that he lets you know where you stand. 

So, I do hope that Woody is being upfront with everybody about their expectations. And, like you, I think he is. 

Also 'creaning' in our new reality is a lot less harsh than before the transfer portal existed. Forcing a player to transfer AND sit out a year is a kick in the balls.

I'd bet in many cases now, the agreement for a player to transfer is relatively mutual. Of course there are going to be instances when a school feels they are getting cheated by a player, and instances when a player feels they are getting cheated by a school. But I want to believe that overall it's a net positive.  Kids want to play in other programs because they're not going to develop on the bench. Schools want to replace unproductive players with fresh meat in hopes of getting a talent upgrade. 

...Again this all depends on how honest the communication is between coach and player. 

So, in my world of rainbows and unicorns - I don't want a scholarship to go to waste. 

 

[IUFLA]

34 minutes ago, Indykev said:

You bring in the best players you can every year. You dont back off and give anyone anything. THEY earn it by working their ass off in practice. When they earn it by beating out others, they'll be better for it.

It's not simply about amassing talent and letting them "earn it."

And I said, you don't give anyone anything but the OPPORTUNITY,,,

Do you think Caleb Love would have been a good fit? Would you rather have Love than say, Trey Galloway?

I'm all for competition for playing time...said that in my post...But when you've invested in a kid, and he's invested in you there comes a time when you have to give them the opportunity...Woody did that last year with both Banks and Gunn in limited roles, and I thought he played it perfectly...

And as I've said many times, I trust Mike Woodson 100%...Have from day 1...What ever he does with the last scholly is the only opinion that matters...

[Zuckerkorn]

Certainly there's arguments to be made both ways AND it depends on the coaches evaluation of a given player.

This MMike player is described as being "still raw" and intent on going professional.  He likely is looking to play significant minutes.  Is he likely to provide more to the program in one season (if he plays well) than an existing bench player will in his remaining seasons?

Do you bring in a  less heralded guy with several years of eligibility left at the risk of not getting (more talented) recruits in the coming months?  Or take the chance of not doing so then not getting recruiting targets?

Recruiting over guys who the staff feels aren't likely to become significant contributors here is OK with me, but doing it just to bring in a marginally better player rubs me the wrong way.  It's a complex, fine line.

Bottom line is Woodson is still building his program, adapting to CBB and establishing a culture and that figures into things as well.

Edited June 5, 2023 by Zuckerkorn

[BobSaccamanno]

1 hour ago, IUFLA said:

I try to balance what I feel is the right way to do things, with the new reality you mention...

Take a kid like Hart...If Woody is upfront with him and tells him he'd have to fight his way into the rotation on the practice court, which would be difficult, and he's good being practice fodder with mop up minutes until that happens, and the kid agrees, fine...I don't think you'd find many talented kids that would accept that...Leal seems to be fine with it, but I think he's the exception rather than the rule...

Woody's got a tall order in front of him this year...He's melding the 6 guys that have played for him with 6 who haven't...Not only on the court, but off as well...If we do take one more, "good fit" should always be one of the criteria...

And I believe in giving kids like Gunn and Banks their fair shot...

I guess people wonder why I have faith in CJ...His form is excellent, he's a confident kid, and he's going to work at it...If you watch his high school highlights, you see it...Quick release, get's his feet and body set as the pass is coming, and has all 3 levels of scoring...I know it doesn't always translate, but you've played sports..,You know as I do that it takes some experince as you move up the chain for some kids to really show what they've got...I think he shows it this year...

For what it's worth, here are some of his senior year highlights...Shot off the dribble? Check. Shot off the pass? Check. Midrange? Check. Under duress? Check. 3 point shot? Check...Long, athletic...He'll get the mental part and defense figured out...

And I'll say this...I think Woody is well aware that teams that are long and athletic like most in the SEC, and the ones that did well this year in the tournament are the road forward, Big 10 prototypes be damned...These are the kinds of kids that get us to the next level...

I liked Gunn's motor a lot too.  He's willing to defend and can be a good two way player.  

[dgambill]

1 hour ago, tdhoosier said:

I will say that the one trait recruits, former players and current players consistently preach about Woody is that he lets you know where you stand. 

So, I do hope that Woody is being upfront with everybody about their expectations. And, like you, I think he is. 

Also 'creaning' in our new reality is a lot less harsh than before the transfer portal existed. Forcing a player to transfer AND sit out a year is a kick in the balls.

I'd bet in many cases now, the agreement for a player to transfer is relatively mutual. Of course there are going to be instances when a school feels they are getting cheated by a player, and instances when a player feels they are getting cheated by a school. But I want to believe that overall it's a net positive.  Kids want to play in other programs because they're not going to develop on the bench. Schools want to replace unproductive players with fresh meat in hopes of getting a talent upgrade. 

...Again this all depends on how honest the communication is between coach and player. 

So, in my world of rainbows and unicorns - I don't want a scholarship to go to waste. 

 

Agreed. I say fill it…we need better players for practice alone. Let them all fight it out. The ones not cutting it will leave on their own accord to search out playing time elsewhere. Our responsibility is to put together the best team we can. Look at the guys not playing last year…Geronimo, Bates, Duncomb left…same will happen next with guys if they feel they aren’t cutting it. It’s a fine line but kids know they are going to fight it out with 12 other kids. That’s expected. Especially bringing in Freshmen vs portal. We have to keep bringing in guys that’s how it works…develop or move on. Nothing is handed to anyone on this team…this isn’t UK where Cal promises minutes to 5* kids…so you know you’re screwed. IU you will win your minutes…everyone.

Edited June 5, 2023 by dgambill

[dgambill]

I know we like to think we have all this 24/25 talent coming in because we’ve been at the top of the board for many….but there are no assurances. We can land multiple or none…don’t want a UK situation with 7 scholarship players.

[Indykev]

Nothing happening today. Woody leaving at 640pm.

[KoB2011]

9 hours ago, BobSaccamanno said:

I liked Gunn's motor a lot too.  He's willing to defend and can be a good two way player.  

I think CJ seems like a good kid, but what are we basing this on? It’s certainly not anything he showed last year.

 The kid has every single opportunity to earn meaningful minutes, including playing and by default with our injuries, and he was bad on both ends. I hope he figures it out, but I really hope we aren’t counting on him to be in the rotation at this point. Out of our current guards he is fifth in my mind. 🤷‍♂️

[cthomas]

40 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I think CJ seems like a good kid, but what are we basing this on? It’s certainly not anything he showed last year.

 The kid has every single opportunity to earn meaningful minutes, including playing and by default with our injuries, and he was bad on both ends. I hope he figures it out, but I really hope we aren’t counting on him to be in the rotation at this point. Out of our current guards he is fifth in my mind. 🤷‍♂️

I like the measureables. He fits the mold of what CMW wants on this team. I'm sure he had the end of season conversation with Woodson. He knows what he needs to do to get on the court. Now we will see how bad he wants it. I'm an Indy area guy, so I pull a little harder for Indy kids. How hard CMW goes after filling that last scholarship will tell me a lot about how he feels about who we already have.

[rico]

14 hours ago, Indykev said:

Nothing happening today. Woody leaving at 640pm.

FORE!

[KoB2011]

11 hours ago, cthomas said:

I like the measureables. He fits the mold of what CMW wants on this team. I'm sure he had the end of season conversation with Woodson. He knows what he needs to do to get on the court. Now we will see how bad he wants it. I'm an Indy area guy, so I pull a little harder for Indy kids. How hard CMW goes after filling that last scholarship will tell me a lot about how he feels about who we already have.

This just feels like a long way of saying we want a local kid with good measurables to do well. Which I agree with, but we don’t win games with hope and optimism, we win with basketball players and CJ has a long way to go there.

Again, rooting for CJ, but I also hope we aren’t counting on him at this point. I personally trust that the coaches like what they see in Newton and Cupps as backup guards and I do think we will add another guard still.