Rutgers Post Game Thread

[Kdug]

2 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

All well and good, but Rutgers has scored 66 or less in seven of their fifteen games this year. 

Rutgers had an 88.3 adjusted offensive rating vs IU, their 2nd worst of the year. They also had 54 points with 2 minutes remaining, and would proceed to score their last 12 point all from the free throw line once IU started fouling.

IU’s defense has been bad most of the year, but last night that was not the case even considering it was Rutgers. The offense was the issue and was abysmal in every facet.

[btownqb]

Just now, 13th&Jackson said:

On the season, Rutgers shoots 39% overall and 28% from three. Any defense would be good against that. 

Again, OUR OFFENSE ensured Rutgers was going to have a decent game by their standards.. us playing decent defensively, it's actually ok to admit that, at least prevented them from having a good game offensively. 

None of that really matters though, but I'm not the one that is dissecting quotes from a post game presser. 

[IndyResident16]

1 minute ago, Kdug said:

Rutgers had an 88.3 adjusted offensive rating vs IU, their 2nd worst of the year. They also had 54 points with 2 minutes remaining, and would proceed to score their last 12 point all from the free throw line once IU started fouling.

IU’s defense has been bad most of the year, but last night that was not the case even considering it was Rutgers. The offense was the issue and was abysmal in every facet.

Yes and no. By efficiency metrics and disrupting what Rutgers wanted to do, yes the defense was fine. But by my count, Rutgers scored 14 points off offensive rebounds. That can't happen against a team like Rutgers. 

[jefftheref]

8 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

I was taught if you have nothing nice to say then don't say anything, unfortunately I am a slow learner. Before anyone says where was he after OSU game. I was at the Colts game having a great time with my family.

I made reference to it after Nebraska about smart play and hard play and some disagreed with that  assessment but I stand behind it. This team might be the dumbest basketball group I have seen on the court ever at IU. Sampsons guys might not be book smart might have been druggies, criminals  etc... but had some basketball knowledge this group not a lick. Not since a 3rd grade game at the YMCA had I seen a player dribble pick up ball then dribble again until Walker last night. He shocked the ref and I just about fell off the couch. That was right after throwing a perfect pass into the back of a Rutgers player that led to a layup the other way. You cannot get outrebounded the way they did last night  and say that anyone is playing hard or smart.

The only differences that I see between the product that Archie put on the floor and what Woodson has on the floor now are:

1. The number of stars next to the players name is greater now.

2. Archies pack line defense gave up tons of wide open shots by design we just give them away now like door prizes.

 

10 years from now or maybe sooner well hell maybe even now. Coach Tom Crean is going to look like a genius and a hall of famer while at IU in comparison to everyone else. I could live with losing and the antics of Crean to watch those teams. I need a bottle of pepto some strong alcohol if a were a drinker and some type of speed if i did drugs to be able to watch this team game in an out. Boring unfundamental basketball at its best.  If you want to have fun watching college basketball and stay in state the product on the floor at ISU is much more entertaining. Not sure how but somehow they found players that can not only shoot but make shots and they play fairly smart.  Last night I watched until the under 12 timeout of the second half and in that time I saw more air ball 3's shot than 3's made by Indiana. It truly is hard to shoot an airball or at least for me it was.  

 

 

Great post. For me the quality of play and coaching is like the old saying, garbage in, garbage out. We suck!

[Hoosierdave]

12 hours ago, Sea Turtle said:

I'm surprised that Mike Woodson hasn't turned Indiana into a powerhouse. 

Indiana is dead like Nebraska football. It will take a Saban like hire to bring them back. 

I totally agree we are the equivalent of Nebraska football but I don’t agree it would take a Coach Self or Coach Cal to come in and win. Tom Crean is a prime example of that. He won 2 conference titles and went to 2 Sweet 16s in the span of like 4-5 years.   He was an average to above average coach. If he was great or HOF caliber, he wouldn’t have ended up at Georgia, fired, then an ESPN analyst. 
 

That’s why I’m so frustrated with Woodson. On paper, he’s won some of the highest achievements as a college player, NBA player, and NBA coach. He was taught under Knight and has successfully won recruiting battles for highly-ranked out of state players. We have proven shooters/scorers to learn from in Hulls and Cheaney. We have 3x former 5-stars (Ware, Mac, Malik) 2x of them former burger boys (Ware, Mac) a 6th year senior and a true senior as our back court and captains. Maybe I’m ignorant but that should be enough to be a tournament caliber team. 

[John S]

2 hours ago, NCHoosier32 said:

my guess would be Ware still goes based on potential and that if Mtaco does not, he transfers.  i could definitely be wrong, but the way kids are these days, i could see him blame the coaches/system for not getting him to 1 and done.  

If Ware goes NBA, it shows that nobody watches him play.  His lack of hustle is telegraphed in every movement he makes.

[Kdug]

2 minutes ago, John S said:

If Ware goes NBA, it shows that nobody watches him play.  His lack of hustle is telegraphed in every movement he makes.

The lack of hustle knock on Ware is something IU fans grabbed onto because of the Oregon coaches comments. His hustle has not been an issue, and Ware himself isn’t IU’s issue. Ware was the only person on IU who rebounded last night, with 17 rebounds. You don’t get that without effort.

The knock on him is he isn’t very strong and can be pushed around. That can be fixed with time in the weight room over a few off-seasons.

[John S]

8 minutes ago, Kdug said:

The lack of hustle knock on Ware is something IU fans grabbed onto because of the Oregon coaches comments. His hustle has not been an issue, and Ware himself isn’t IU’s issue. Ware was the only person on IU who rebounded last night, with 17 rebounds. You don’t get that without effort.

The knock on him is he isn’t very strong and can be pushed around. That can be fixed with time in the weight room over a few off-seasons.

 

8 minutes ago, Kdug said:

The lack of hustle knock on Ware is something IU fans grabbed onto because of the Oregon coaches comments. His hustle has not been an issue, and Ware himself isn’t IU’s issue. Ware was the only person on IU who rebounded last night, with 17 rebounds. You don’t get that without effort.

The knock on him is he isn’t very strong and can be pushed around. That can be fixed with time in the weight room over a few off-seasons.

You make a good point

[tdhoosier]

8 minutes ago, John S said:

If Ware goes NBA, it shows that nobody watches him play.  His lack of hustle is telegraphed in every movement he makes.

Ware played much worse last year and was still projected as a late 1st rounder/early second rounder. He has good skill, good footwork and has a good outside shot. And you can't teach 7 feet with length. I think he has a place in the NBA.

Now, I think there's no way Mgbako has a chance at getting drafted this Spring. If he shot at a higher percentage....maybe. But he's still streaky, lost on defense and can't make up for those short comings with NBA caliber athleticism. He needs a few more years of development. I hope he stays next year because I think he can eventually be a nice shooting threat. 

[Dawg Bawls]

4 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

San Francisco has had two sports win 3+ titles in the past 15 seasons. Maybe not the best example. 

Were talking basketball and the reference was something else...

[KoB2011]

39 minutes ago, Hoosierdave said:

On paper, he’s won some of the highest achievements as a college player, NBA player, and NBA coach.

Enlighten me - what exactly did he win in those roles? His senior year was a great year as a player for him and the team, but aside from that I just don't see the great resume to say he is unquestionable. 

[KoB2011]

6 minutes ago, Dawg Bawls said:

Were talking basketball and the reference was something else...

Okay - San Francisco is doing okay in basketball the past decade. Heard of the Warriors? They play there. 

[Dawg Bawls]

Just now, KoB2011 said:

Okay - San Francisco is doing okay in basketball the past decade. Heard of the Warriors? They play there. 

Gawd dang dude... you are just saying crap now... YOU KNIW WHAT I MEAN... Bill Russel NCAA basketball... 

and what sports have San Francisco won huh? What sports has San Francisco won the national championships in college huh? What women's golf, running? just stop and take the joke or move on...GEEZ

[Kdug]

4 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Enlighten me - what exactly did he win in those roles? His senior year was a great year as a player for him and the team, but aside from that I just don't see the great resume to say he is unquestionable. 

He’s responsible for the best NY Knicks team and the second best Hawks team since 2000.

Don’t think he’s unquestionable. But he did have some good tenures at each spot relative to other coaches, but that was over a decade ago and a lot has changed since then.

[Hoosierdave]

12 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Enlighten me - what exactly did he win in those roles? His senior year was a great year as a player for him and the team, but aside from that I just don't see the great resume to say he is unquestionable. 

Per his wiki page:
 

As a junior team captain, his Hoosiers won the 1979 NIT Tournament and he was named to first team All-Big Ten. That summer Woodson won a gold medal as captain of the United States basketball team at the 1979 Pan American Games. His senior year, Woodson and Isiah Thomas led the 1979–80 Hoosiers to a conference title and a berth in the NCAA Tournament's Sweet Sixteen. Woodson was named the 1980 Big Ten Player of the Year, an NABC All-American, and awarded the Chicago TribuneSilver Basketball. Among Hoosier basketball players, Woodson ranks fifth all-time in total points and his 19.8 points per game average is tied (with Calbert Cheaney) for the second highest by a Hoosier who played four seasons in college.

Woodson played 11 seasons in the National Basketball Association (NBA) after getting drafted by the New York Knicks as the 12th pick of the 1980 NBA draft. He also played for the New Jersey Nets, Kansas City/Sacramento Kings, Los Angeles Clippers, Houston Rockets, and Cleveland Cavaliers. He appeared in 13 NBA playoff games over five post-seasons.

Woodson later coached for seven different NBA franchises. He worked as an assistant for the Milwaukee Bucks, Cleveland Cavaliers, Larry Brown's Philadelphia 76ers and Detroit Pistons, Los Angeles Clippers, and New York Knicks. Woodson and Brown, who had previously worked together as player and coach, won an NBA Championship with the Pistons during the 2003–04 season. Woodson went on to serve six years as head coach of the Atlanta Hawks, where he made the playoffs his last three seasons and his 206 career wins rank fourth-best in Hawks franchise history. He subsequently spent three seasons as head coach of the New York Knicks, where he reached the playoffs twice and secured the Atlantic Division title.

[rico]

Ain't got nothing to add to anything that has been said.  It is a somber day at "Rancho Rico."  That game last night even has my dog depressed.

[IUCrazy2]

1 hour ago, Hoosierdave said:

I totally agree we are the equivalent of Nebraska football but I don’t agree it would take a Coach Self or Coach Cal to come in and win. Tom Crean is a prime example of that. He won 2 conference titles and went to 2 Sweet 16s in the span of like 4-5 years.   He was an average to above average coach. If he was great or HOF caliber, he wouldn’t have ended up at Georgia, fired, then an ESPN analyst. 
 

That’s why I’m so frustrated with Woodson. On paper, he’s won some of the highest achievements as a college player, NBA player, and NBA coach. He was taught under Knight and has successfully won recruiting battles for highly-ranked out of state players. We have proven shooters/scorers to learn from in Hulls and Cheaney. We have 3x former 5-stars (Ware, Mac, Malik) 2x of them former burger boys (Ware, Mac) a 6th year senior and a true senior as our back court and captains. Maybe I’m ignorant but that should be enough to be a tournament caliber team. 

Brian Evans makes a point around the 14 minute mark that I have made about past teams.  The atmosphere around the team is like a country club.  We bring guys in here on a regular basis and treat them like superstars simply for the fact they are at Indiana.  And most of that mystique was built by guys who are currently in their 40's (at best, those last Knight guys weren't lighting it up at the end of his tenure but you know they put in work because he wouldn't allow anything less).

The hunger isn't there.  Come to Indiana, do like any old program would expect for an athlete, enjoy the facilities, take a nice check, and then do whatever on the court.  That isn't a recipe for success.  As the old saying goes, I get the impression that so many of our players start on third base by coming here and then feel like they hit a triple. 

Eventually the old heads who were alive for what this program was won't be around anymore.  And we lose more and more of them every year.  This program is in big flipping trouble when people younger than me (mid 40's) are going to be those counted on to keep the ship floating.  I haven't seen much to get excited for since my early 20's.  People currently in their 30's had a Championship loss in grade school and a couple of Cody Zeller/Victor Oladipo years.  That's darn close to Iowa.  This gravy train the current players are squandering won't last forever.  It needs fuel.

Edited January 10 by IUCrazy2

[John S]

Practice this week in prep for Minn. will be comprised of :

• No players allowed to shoot 3's
• Box-out drills
• Ball control: Grab rebounds w 2 hands, pass/receive w 2 hands
• Defense: position body between ball and hoop, shuffle feet. Any defender running alongside offensive player will runs sprints immediately
• Shoot FTs......tons of them
• No touchy/feely hand slaps to teammates who miss FT
• Scrimmage rule: ball handler takes no more than 3 dribbles, then must shoot or pass within 3 seconds
• The 4 second rule: ball movement is crucial. NO player anywhere on court can stand in place more than 4 seconds.
• No hugging/group meetings between plays (we all should already know how to play)
• You make a shot?  Immediately run your ass to other end and prepare to defend. T

After several sessions, players will hate going to Practice and detest CMW.  That is beneficial.  It's about time these 4/5 "Star" athletes learn to execute fundamentally smart TEAM basketball skills.  Then, more wins will come and Hoosier fans will not be embarassed watching a continual sloppy mess.  AMEN

 

[iuthruandthru]

45 minutes ago, Kdug said:

The lack of hustle knock on Ware is something IU fans grabbed onto because of the Oregon coaches comments. His hustle has not been an issue, and Ware himself isn’t IU’s issue. Ware was the only person on IU who rebounded last night, with 17 rebounds. You don’t get that without effort.

The knock on him is he isn’t very strong and can be pushed around. That can be fixed with time in the weight room over a few off-seasons.

I think his overall effort is no better than the rest of the team, which ain’t great.

[KoB2011]

54 minutes ago, Kdug said:

He’s responsible for the best NY Knicks team and the second best Hawks team since 2000.

Don’t think he’s unquestionable. But he did have some good tenures at each spot relative to other coaches, but that was over a decade ago and a lot has changed since then.

I'll table the Hawks, but I'll address the Knicks.

He had one good season, and even in that season a lot of the complaints we have are the same they had. The perimeter defense sucked. They made major changes to go big the following offseason (who knows how much of that was Woody) and he got fired before the All Star break because they sucked so much.

He coached exactly two full seasons in New York before they had seen enough of him. Let's not overstate the level of success he had there. We can excuse the short tenure as an unstable organization, but if we do that then what's the point in even bragging about the "best season" they've had in 20 years. Your shit stunk a little less than others isn't exactly a glowing recommendation. 

Edited January 10 by KoB2011

[KoB2011]

24 minutes ago, Dawg Bawls said:

Gawd dang dude... you are just saying crap now... YOU KNIW WHAT I MEAN... Bill Russel NCAA basketball... 

and what sports have San Francisco won huh? What sports has San Francisco won the national championships in college huh? What women's golf, running? just stop and take the joke or move on...GEEZ

I did not know what you meant at all. I actually even told someone else I didn't think you were talking about those teams.

But if you know enough about what went wrong 80 years ago with that program to say then more power to you. 

[Billingsley99]

1 hour ago, btownqb said:

What antics!?! Clapping!?! 

Wrong word not antics quirkiness maybe. And how others on the outside viewed him. I promise I would take him back in a second.  Not gonna bash Crean he gave me his cell number to discuss coaching as well as our son's travel baseball teams and he always answered if I had a question or comment. Never talked about Indiana basketball just my teams and mostly about our boys playing baseball.  

 

[NCHoosier32]

2 hours ago, IU Scott said:

I can't believe it we agree on another thing. I don't see Ware back at all and I think MM will either turn or or transfer.

McNeely

Reneau 

Cupps 

Sparks 

Gunn 

I could these as the only players back from this year's team. If that doesn't s the case we have to hit on the portal and hopefully get Queen and Davis fro the high school recruits

getting a little scary Scott.  we agree on this, short bench, and needing to handle XJ more harshly than what will be done.  

[btownqb]

22 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Wrong word not antics quirkiness maybe. And how others on the outside viewed him. I promise I would take him back in a second.  Not gonna bash Crean he gave me his cell number to discuss coaching as well as our son's travel baseball teams and he always answered if I had a question or comment. Never talked about Indiana basketball just my teams and mostly about our boys playing baseball.  

 

Only in person encounter with Crean I ever had, he stopped what he.was doing (walking into Dicks in Bloomington) to talk to me. Told him I was happy he offered Hulls, we were in the same grade and I couldn't guard Jordy a lick lol. 

I brought up the antics comment, which you addressed, because I never understood the complaints about mannerisms, but we can stay away from that topic since that stay away from that discussion in this thread. 

[Kdug]

28 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I'll table the Hawks, but I'll address the Knicks.

He had one good season, and even in that season a lot of the complaints we have are the same they had. The perimeter defense sucked. They made major changes to go big the following offseason (who knows how much of that was Woody) and he got fired before the All Star break because they sucked so much.

He coached exactly one full season in New York before they had seen enough of him. Let's not overstate the level of success he had there. We can excuse the short tenure as an unstable organization, but if we do that then what's the point in even bragging about the "best season" they've had in 20 years. Your shit stunk a little less than others isn't exactly a glowing recommendation. 

I’m not trying to argue Woodson was a great NBA coach, but trying to act like he was terrible and accomplished nothing is just inaccurate. He was probably somewhere around average.

Regardless, none of that matters now because it’s not going to fix the issues at IU. I think many of our issues this year go back to how this roster was built this offseason. Getting another good guard in the portal should’ve been a priority, and relying heavily on X (who’s inconsistent) and Galloway (who’s better in a complimentary role, also inconsistent) was clearly a mistake. Hopefully the staff learns from this and prioritizes getting multiple impact guards in the portal for next year.

We also need to prioritize keeping young players who show promise, especially guards, from leaving in the transfer portal. I know Bates was inconsistent last year, but he had flashes of potential and looks to have improved this year. No idea if he left on his own or if the staff pushed him out, but he’d really help this year’s team on the offensive end. I feel like Gunn and Mgbako fit that mold.