Rutgers Post Game Thread

[Billingsley99]

2 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Only in person encounter with Crean I ever had, he stopped what he.was doing (walking into Dicks in Bloomington) to talk to me. Told him I was happy he offered Hulls, we were in the same grade and I couldn't guard Jordy a lick lol. 

I brought up the antics comment, which you addressed, because I never understood the complaints about mannerisms, but we can stay away from that topic since that stay away from that discussion in this thread. 

me either I just know lots on here do and I chose a poor word to appease the masses lol. 1st encounter with him our boys were 10 and he was standing in the rain with an Eagles coat on standing along the left field line. His son played left for Smithville and my son played left that day for the Blazers. I introduced myself we talked for the whole game exchanged numbers he signed a diaper bag for Ayden who was 8 months old at the time and was above and beyond nice to me and my family. 

 Several years prior When I was at South Decatur I emailed him and he was still at Marquette. He sent me the whole Marquette play book and an entire folder of shooting drills for mid range and closer shots. Maybe that helped DWADE along the way. I text him once that I needed a new OB under against zone to try and steal 2 pts a game he sent my 100 plays against Man another 100 for Zone and several DVDs of them from practice. I better not say too much because that why I ticked people off when I said I was not an Archie fan and they just thought it was sour grapes because I had been spoiled by Crean and Archie turned me down lol

[btownqb]

2 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

me either I just know lots on here do and I chose a poor word to appease the masses lol. 1st encounter with him our boys were 10 and he was standing in the rain with an Eagles coat on standing along the left field line. His son played left for Smithville and my son played left that day for the Blazers. I introduced myself we talked for the whole game exchanged numbers he signed a diaper bag for Ayden who was 8 months old at the time and was above and beyond nice to me and my family. 

 Several years prior When I was at South Decatur I emailed him and he was still at Marquette. He sent me the whole Marquette play book and an entire folder of shooting drills for mid range and closer shots. Maybe that helped DWADE along the way. I text him once that I needed a new OB under against zone to try and steal 2 pts a game he sent my 100 plays against Man another 100 for Zone and several DVDs of them from practice. I better not say too much because that why I ticked people off when I said I was not an Archie fan and they just thought it was sour grapes because I had been spoiled by Crean and Archie turned me down lol

The ole Smithville Scrappers. Love it. 

[KoB2011]

8 minutes ago, Kdug said:

I’m not trying to argue Woodson was a great NBA coach, but trying to act like he was terrible and accomplished nothing is just inaccurate. He was probably somewhere around average.

Regardless, none of that matters now because it’s not going to fix the issues at IU. I think many of our issues this year go back to how this roster was built this offseason. Getting another good guard in the portal should’ve been a priority, and relying heavily on X (who’s inconsistent) and Galloway (who’s better in a complimentary role, also inconsistent) was clearly a mistake. Hopefully the staff learns from this and prioritizes getting multiple impact guards in the portal for next year.

We also need to prioritize keeping young players who show promise, especially guards, from leaving in the transfer portal. I know Bates was inconsistent last year, but he had flashes of potential and looks to have improved this year. No idea if he left on his own or if the staff pushed him out, but he’d really help this year’s team on the offensive end. I feel like Gunn and Mgbako fit that mold.

I responded to someone saying he has won some of the highest achievements, which I strongly disagree with. He didn’t win anything in the NBA as a player or coach.

His senior year in college he was conference player of the year on a conference champion. That’s not in dispute by me as a good accomplishment.

I agree the staffs failure to put a good roster together is the biggest issue this year. I’m not optimistic about next years roster right now but I hope they address it adequately. I think the first two years were promising but you can’t completely crap the bed two years in a row. The staff has work to do. 

[jefftheref]

1 hour ago, Hoosierdave said:

Per his wiki page:
 

As a junior team captain, his Hoosiers won the 1979 NIT Tournament and he was named to first team All-Big Ten. That summer Woodson won a gold medal as captain of the United States basketball team at the 1979 Pan American Games. His senior year, Woodson and Isiah Thomas led the 1979–80 Hoosiers to a conference title and a berth in the NCAA Tournament's Sweet Sixteen. Woodson was named the 1980 Big Ten Player of the Year, an NABC All-American, and awarded the Chicago TribuneSilver Basketball. Among Hoosier basketball players, Woodson ranks fifth all-time in total points and his 19.8 points per game average is tied (with Calbert Cheaney) for the second highest by a Hoosier who played four seasons in college.

Woodson played 11 seasons in the National Basketball Association (NBA) after getting drafted by the New York Knicks as the 12th pick of the 1980 NBA draft. He also played for the New Jersey Nets, Kansas City/Sacramento Kings, Los Angeles Clippers, Houston Rockets, and Cleveland Cavaliers. He appeared in 13 NBA playoff games over five post-seasons.

Woodson later coached for seven different NBA franchises. He worked as an assistant for the Milwaukee Bucks, Cleveland Cavaliers, Larry Brown's Philadelphia 76ers and Detroit Pistons, Los Angeles Clippers, and New York Knicks. Woodson and Brown, who had previously worked together as player and coach, won an NBA Championship with the Pistons during the 2003–04 season. Woodson went on to serve six years as head coach of the Atlanta Hawks, where he made the playoffs his last three seasons and his 206 career wins rank fourth-best in Hawks franchise history. He subsequently spent three seasons as head coach of the New York Knicks, where he reached the playoffs twice and secured the Atlantic Division title.

I pray to God that one of the NBA teams looks at his resume and hires him! In my opinion he isn't qualified to construct a college roster and build a program. Please God, let him go back to the NBA!

[Kdug]

3 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I responded to someone saying he has won some of the highest achievements, which I strongly disagree with. He didn’t win anything in the NBA as a player or coach.

His senior year in college he was conference player of the year on a conference champion. That’s not in dispute by me as a good accomplishment.

I agree the staffs failure to put a good roster together is the biggest issue this year. I’m not optimistic about next years roster right now but I hope they address it adequately. I think the first two years were promising but you can’t completely crap the bed two years in a row. The staff has work to do. 

Fair enough on the NBA stuff.

And yeah, as it sits now the staff has a lot of work to do for next year’s roster. Imo we don’t have anyone who I’d feel good about starting at either guard spot. Gunn and Cupps are fine if they’re projected as rotational bench players, but having them pencilled in as starters would require both to have massive improvements. Imo we need multiple starting caliber guards from the portal.

One bad year you can write off as a fluke (assuming things keep going the way they look this year), but two bad years in a row in year 3 and 4 would probably get Woodson fired or at least on the hot seat unless he has something exceptionally promising lined up for year 5.

[KoB2011]

1 minute ago, Kdug said:

Fair enough on the NBA stuff.

And yeah, as it sits now the staff has a lot of work to do for next year’s roster. Imo we don’t have anyone who I’d feel good about starting at either guard spot. Gunn and Cupps are fine if they’re projected as rotational bench players, but having them pencilled in as starters would require both to have massive improvements. Imo we need multiple starting caliber guards from the portal.

One bad year you can write off as a fluke (assuming things keep going the way they look this year), but two bad years in a row in year 3 and 4 would probably get Woodson fired or at least on the hot seat unless he has something exceptionally promising lined up for year 5.

To your point, I think Bates could’ve been a guy to start:

 

[Kdug]

4 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

To your point, I think Bates could’ve been a guy to start:

 

Bates was showing that improvement at IU from his Freshman to Sophmore year. For non-NBA guys, we need to ensure we’re keeping the guys who can be developed. He could’ve transferred to be closer to home and there was nothing we could’ve done. But he seemed to project to have a clear role as either a starter in a 3 guard lineup or at minimum a 6th man who’s getting 20ish minutes per game.

[Indykev]

15 hours ago, Sea Turtle said:

I'm surprised that Mike Woodson hasn't turned Indiana into a powerhouse. 

Indiana is dead like Nebraska football. It will take a Saban like hire to bring them back. 

Can Saban coach basketball?

[kyhoosier29]

Didn’t see many complaints about officiating last night. Were we that bad they weren’t noticed? 😂

[IndyResident16]

1 hour ago, KoB2011 said:

I'll table the Hawks, but I'll address the Knicks.

He had one good season, and even in that season a lot of the complaints we have are the same they had. The perimeter defense sucked. They made major changes to go big the following offseason (who knows how much of that was Woody) and he got fired before the All Star break because they sucked so much.

He coached exactly two full seasons in New York before they had seen enough of him. Let's not overstate the level of success he had there. We can excuse the short tenure as an unstable organization, but if we do that then what's the point in even bragging about the "best season" they've had in 20 years. Your shit stunk a little less than others isn't exactly a glowing recommendation. 

Woodson's run in NY ended when the Knicks hired Phil Jackson as president of basketball operations late into his 3rd season and ultimately his last. Jackson wanted a coach familiar with his Triangle offense and fired Woodson in favor of rookie head coach Derek Fisher, who ended up an unmitigated disaster. Woodson wasn't fired for performance rather a philosophical change in the front office. It's the nature of the business at that level.

 

[Jeff]

3 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Galloway is a 6 or 7th on a really good team.

Or 8th

[IUCrazy2]

33 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

To your point, I think Bates could’ve been a guy to start:

 

It is our system.  We do next to nothing to get our guards the ball in a position to do something with it.  If we have any action for a guard it is typically for whomever is running point and the action is out of the pick and roll (which usually is designed to get the big who is doing the pick the ball).

Stand here and hope you get the ball in a position to do something with it is not a great way to set up a shooter.  Furthermore, on the rare occasions the ball is coming back out is is usually a wild ass pass out of the post that doesn't hit the shooter in a position to get the ball up.  That half a second to adjust to the catch and get back into a shooting position usually means they are covered again.

Everything we do revolves around the guys in the paint.  Everything.

[13th&Jackson]

48 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

To your point, I think Bates could’ve been a guy to start:

 

Posted this last evening elsewhere

 

Don’t have Peacock, so watching KY-MO. Announcer said “Indiana transfer Tamar Bates has flourished under MO’s higher tempo offense.” That will help recruit guards. 

[John S]

1 hour ago, btownqb said:

Only in person encounter with Crean I ever had, he stopped what he.was doing (walking into Dicks in Bloomington) to talk to me. Told him I was happy he offered Hulls, we were in the same grade and I couldn't guard Jordy a lick lol. 

I brought up the antics comment, which you addressed, because I never understood the complaints about mannerisms, but we can stay away from that topic since that stay away from that discussion in this thread. 

My son, an IU grad, encountered Crean 3 times and Crean was gracious each time.

[John S]

53 minutes ago, Indykev said:

Can Saban coach basketball?

can Pete Carroll coach basketball? 

[btownqb]

If we'd defensive rebound better, we could run more 🤦‍♂️🤬

It's a simple game. 

Every other team is doing 2nd grade math flash cards

We are trying to work through a calculus problem 🤦‍♂️

[Artesian_86]

Just now, btownqb said:

If we'd defensive rebound better, we could run more 🤦‍♂️🤬

It's a simple game. 

Every other team is doing 2nd grade math flash cards

We are trying to work through a calculus problem 🤦‍♂️

Is it just me,.....but why is there never anyone around basket to rebound after we attempt a 3 or longer outside shot? We never have an option to put it back up or pass back out? 

[IU Scott]

Brian Evans was on the JMV show and he us definitely not happy with Woodson. He is really upset because of how he doesn't hold players accountable and no real punishment for poor play. He said he can't believe how Woodson could have played 4 years for RMK and coach so soft.

He said he never has met Woodson and to me that is hard time believe. Evans was still IU for 5 years and can't believe Woodson never came back in that time frame.

Edited January 10 by IU Scott

[John S]

7 minutes ago, Artesian_86 said:

Is it just me,.....but why is there never anyone around basket to rebound after we attempt a 3 or longer outside shot? We never have an option to put it back up or pass back out? 

Also, I notice often when X or TG drive for an expected layup, there are 3 or 4 guys outside watching.

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, IndyResident16 said:

Woodson's run in NY ended when the Knicks hired Phil Jackson as president of basketball operations late into his 3rd season and ultimately his last. Jackson wanted a coach familiar with his Triangle offense and fired Woodson in favor of rookie head coach Derek Fisher, who ended up an unmitigated disaster. Woodson wasn't fired for performance rather a philosophical change in the front office. It's the nature of the business at that level.

 

Do you think if Woodson had performed better and his second full season wasn’t such a disaster they’d have made such a big pivot? If things were going well why didn’t anyone else hire him? 

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, IUCrazy2 said:

It is our system.  We do next to nothing to get our guards the ball in a position to do something with it.  If we have any action for a guard it is typically for whomever is running point and the action is out of the pick and roll (which usually is designed to get the big who is doing the pick the ball).

Stand here and hope you get the ball in a position to do something with it is not a great way to set up a shooter.  Furthermore, on the rare occasions the ball is coming back out is is usually a wild ass pass out of the post that doesn't hit the shooter in a position to get the ball up.  That half a second to adjust to the catch and get back into a shooting position usually means they are covered again.

Everything we do revolves around the guys in the paint.  Everything.

I agree with this. But then we hear it’s because we don’t have guards and it isn’t Woodson’s fault his guards suck. 

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, btownqb said:

If we'd defensive rebound better, we could run more 🤦‍♂️🤬

It's a simple game. 

Every other team is doing 2nd grade math flash cards

We are trying to work through a calculus problem 🤦‍♂️

Be very careful saying it’s a simple game, might get told it’s too complex for us to understand. 

[Maedhros]

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

Brian Evans was on the JMV show and he us definitely not happy with Woodson. He is really upset because of how he doesn't hold players accountable and no real punishment for poor play. He said he can't believe how Woodson could have played 4 years for RMK and coach so soft.

I read this complaint a lot, and I think it's borne out of frsutration more than true coaching acumen. The converse is that guys get pulled for making mistakes, and that's not what you want either. Maybe a fourth or fifth year guy like Trey or Xavier, but all these freshmen and sophomores on the team I want them having the confidence and the trust to play through their mistakes. Guys don't get better without mileage.

[NWOHoosier]

Assuming even somewhat adequate guard play:
 

I believe that last night’s game shows that the key to changing things is Reneau. He has to affect the game in more ways than just scoring. He is an elite post scorer, at times a good post to post passer and a serviceable three point shooter. 
He does not affect the game enough in ways beyond offense….yet. His rebounding aggression has to double or triple and his close outs must be more urgent. If he does those things he will be a beast and the team’s trajectory changes. 

[13th&Jackson]

8 minutes ago, NWOHoosier said:

Assuming even somewhat adequate guard play:
 

I believe that last night’s game shows that the key to changing things is Reneau. He has to affect the game in more ways than just scoring. He is an elite post scorer, at times a good post to post passer and a serviceable three point shooter. 
He does not affect the game enough in ways beyond offense….yet. His rebounding aggression has to double or triple and his close outs must be more urgent. If he does those things he will be a beast and the team’s trajectory changes. 

Malik had 13 pts, 6 rebs and 7 assts. Could he be a better rebounder? Yes. But he isn't remotely the problem.

The three guards who played meaningful minutes last night had 16 pts, 4 rebs, 7 assts and 7 TOs. They were 2-12 from three and a combined 0-2 on FTs.