dgambill Posted May 2 Report Share Posted May 2 11 hours ago, IUFLA said: And I expect this to be the popular take if we do well this year... nothing to do with coaching...we just "bought" ourselves success... 🙄 I don’t care how we have success. I’m not going to hold it against him….but the point remains…if the big donors pulled their money…his goose would have been cooked. That is undeniable. If the NIL money backers decided they were done with Woody…he would have been in deep trouble. Did we buy this team…sure did. That’s ok…but let’s not kid ourselves and think that all these kids were dying to come play for Woody. If Tom Crean was the coach this team would have been just as stacked. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted May 2 Report Share Posted May 2 5 minutes ago, dgambill said: If Tom Crean was the coach this team would have been just as stacked. I’m not sure that’s true. I think Woodson has support from some donors that a coach like Crean wouldn’t receive. But Woodson didn’t raise the money. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted May 2 Report Share Posted May 2 (edited) 16 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said: I’m not sure that’s true. I think Woodson has support from some donors that a coach like Crean wouldn’t receive. But Woodson didn’t raise the money. Agree. Woody has support from the people that matter…but I don’t think there is anything about him as a coach that suggests these kids would be tripping over themselves to play for him. I agree any other coach probably would have been left out to dry had they been in Woodys position with a poor showing of a season and no incoming recruits after striking out…he is fortunate he has the support of those that have the $$. They really bailed him out. Edited May 2 by dgambill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maedhros Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 35 minutes ago, dgambill said: Did we buy this team…sure did. That’s ok…but let’s not kid ourselves and think that all these kids were dying to come play for Woody. If Tom Crean was the coach this team would have been just as stacked. Two months ago we were hearing about a mass exodus. Not only did none of that happen but several players players expressed public support of Woodson, on social media and even in senior speeches. Reneau and Mgbako didn't even test the NBA waters. Lots of schools have money. A paycheck alone isn't reason to stay at Indiana. So let's move past this silly notion that playing for Woodson has no appeal beyond a paycheck. Of course, players loved Crean, and still do, so you might be right about that much. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluegrassIU Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 38 minutes ago, dgambill said: Agree. Woody has support from the people that matter…but I don’t think there is anything about him as a coach that suggests these kids would be tripping over themselves to play for him. I agree any other coach probably would have been left out to dry had they been in Woodys position with a poor showing of a season and no incoming recruits after striking out…he is fortunate he has the support of those that have the $$. They really bailed him out. Isnt this true of 99% of the teams in this era? More this off season than ever. As much as we have frustrations, we have yet to have a high impact guy transfer out. And players outwardly have voiced they love playing for him. X, Leal, Trayce, Ware....the list goes in. Players very clearly want to, and enjoy playing for him. Players repeatedly say he deliver what he promises etc. He has to win, 100%. But all these other "things" come off as message board assumptions not based on fact. Money is part of the equation for players decision.....part. NIL is here. We are elite there. But star players still have plenty of options to make big dollars elsewhere if they don't wanna play for Woodson. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledies22 Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 1 hour ago, dgambill said: I don’t care how we have success. I’m not going to hold it against him….but the point remains…if the big donors pulled their money…his goose would have been cooked. That is undeniable. If the NIL money backers decided they were done with Woody…he would have been in deep trouble. Did we buy this team…sure did. That’s ok…but let’s not kid ourselves and think that all these kids were dying to come play for Woody. If Tom Crean was the coach this team would have been just as stacked. It is money. This argument is moot. I don’t understand why you and others bring it up. Sure we pay our players. So does everyone else. In your scenario… pull money from Self and have him try to recruit now. Same results. Nobody. So stop saying “if donors were to pull money then….” Pull money from anyone and have the rest of the country recruit with it. You’re not getting anywhere. Stupid, silly argument. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluegrassIU Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 9 minutes ago, ledies22 said: It is money. This argument is moot. I don’t understand why you and others bring it up. Sure we pay our players. So does everyone else. In your scenario… pull money from Self and have him try to recruit now. Same results. Nobody. So stop saying “if donors were to pull money then….” Pull money from anyone and have the rest of the country recruit with it. You’re not getting anywhere. Stupid, silly argument. To be fair, I am thinking some feel we would not have recruited well this off season if there was no NIL. Whereas KU, UNC, Kansas etc would. Our strong NIL helped us. Which I agree with. My point is "so what". I am glad for it. It doesn't reflect on Woodson either way. What will matter is what we do on the court next season. I am not sold on Woodson. I do, however, think some people's frustrations with him lead to a jaded view of everything. Even the positive. Let's just all.hope we have a huge bounce back season. If we do, we are all happy and it's all moot. If we struggle, I don't think there will be a divided fan base on what we feel should happen. I personally hope he flat out crushes next season. We shall see. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 (edited) On 5/2/2024 at 7:19 AM, IUFLA said: And I expect this to be the popular take if we do well this year... nothing to do with coaching...we just "bought" ourselves success... 🙄 The good thing is, a lot will be resolved next year. With the roster and NIL budget, together with the favorable B1G schedule, the expectations are well defined and I think understood. An average coach would win 24-25 games next year. A good coach would exceed that. A below- average coach would underperform that. Will IU be fundamentally sound and play with a high bball IQ? Will they have good shot selection? Will they have a high assist/TO ratio? Will they get to the FT line and convert at a high %? Will they defend the 3 point line? These are all indicators of a well coached team. What really remains to be seen is how this coaching staff adapts to its personnel. The UConn staff was highly innovative in designing a system that was dominant with a good, but not historically talented roster. If IU plays the same system it has the past three years, that will be very disappointing. Edited May 3 by 13th&Jackson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Hoosier Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 1 hour ago, bluegrassIU said: To be fair, I am thinking some feel we would not have recruited well this off season if there was no NIL. Whereas KU, UNC, Kansas etc would. Our strong NIL helped us. Which I agree with. My point is "so what". I am glad for it. It doesn't reflect on Woodson either way. What will matter is what we do on the court next season. I am not sold on Woodson. I do, however, think some people's frustrations with him lead to a jaded view of everything. Even the positive. Let's just all.hope we have a huge bounce back season. If we do, we are all happy and it's all moot. If we struggle, I don't think there will be a divided fan base on what we feel should happen. I personally hope he flat out crushes next season. We shall see. Agreed. I’m not sold on Woodson either but at the end of the day I just want to win. If we have a good season then I’m all for it. I’d rather be wrong about Woodson and the team has a great season than have the team do poorly just so I can tell everyone how right I was about the coach. But that’s just me. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuswingman Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 2 hours ago, ledies22 said: It is money. This argument is moot. I don’t understand why you and others bring it up. Sure we pay our players. So does everyone else. In your scenario… pull money from Self and have him try to recruit now. Same results. Nobody. So stop saying “if donors were to pull money then….” Pull money from anyone and have the rest of the country recruit with it. You’re not getting anywhere. Stupid, silly argument. People bring it up because they are responding to those that claim Woodson's success in the transfer portal is proving his critics wrong. 1 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 18 hours ago, IUFLA said: And I'm fine with that...the expectations are high and they should be... But I also don't want to hear the "we bought a team" BS if we are successful...that's the rules of the game right now... Deal? The question you have to ask yourself is that if we can "buy" a team then how much does Woodson really matter to that aspect of recruiting? You didn't want to go on record with anything more than "high" expectations because you are hedging your bets for all the same reasons people like me were all over Woodson last year. Namely, you are concerned that he is a net negative to the record. We did buy a team. We bought a really good team. So we should expect really good results from this staff. And if we don't see at least mid-20's in the win column we should move on. We don't need Woodson to be able to buy a team. We do need a coach that can win games with that investment though. Year 4 and he took a couple billionaires donations to buy a competitive team so no excuses from him or you guys this upcoming year. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledies22 Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 9 hours ago, iuswingman said: People bring it up because they are responding to those that claim Woodson's success in the transfer portal is proving his critics wrong. People are going out of their way to be critical of Woodson. It’s the off-season so they can’t complain about on court and season stuff. So while we are “winning” the off-season they are taking that away because no good can come from Woodson. to me this does not fix any of the issues I have with Woodson. Woodson has been able to recruit. This off-season adds to that, but also doesn’t negate his in season, on court issues. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuswingman Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 8 minutes ago, ledies22 said: People are going out of their way to be critical of Woodson. It’s the off-season so they can’t complain about on court and season stuff. So while we are “winning” the off-season they are taking that away because no good can come from Woodson. to me this does not fix any of the issues I have with Woodson. Woodson has been able to recruit. This off-season adds to that, but also doesn’t negate his in season, on court issues. People aren't going out of their way. Most are just responding to posts by pro-Woodson posters pretending like the transfers prove the critics wrong. You just seem interested in silencing one side of the debate. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledies22 Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 1 minute ago, iuswingman said: Or they are just responding to posters that want to pretend those critics are wrong because of the portal transfers. Tell you what. You get all of the pro-Woodson posters to stop with the "where are all the Woodson critics now" bull crap and you will find a lot less critics responding. This is stupid and very elementary. Well he did it first and until he stops I’m not stopping. guess what you and all of the super critics are going to do if we have another crappy season. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledies22 Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 1 minute ago, iuswingman said: People aren't going out of their way. Most are just responding to posts by pro-Woodson posters pretending like the transfers prove the critics wrong. You just seem interested in silencing one side of the debate. Just one argument of buy players and there isn’t any credit due to no one other than donors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 Where are the Pro-Woodson posters!?!?! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuswingman Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 (edited) 12 minutes ago, ledies22 said: This is stupid and very elementary. Well he did it first and until he stops I’m not stopping. guess what you and all of the super critics are going to do if we have another crappy season. no, you're acting clueless about why critics are posting about woodson in the offseason. I told you why. What is stupid is trying to silence posters that don't agree with your opinion. This is a forum and as far as I am aware, we are all allowed to voice our opinion. Maybe you should put your big boy pants on. Edited May 3 by iuswingman 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledies22 Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 1 minute ago, iuswingman said: no, you're acting clueless about why critics are positing about woodson in the offseason. I told you why. What is stupid is trying to silence posters that don't agree with your opinion. This is a forum and as far as I am aware, we are all allowed to voice our opinion. Maybe you should put your big boy pants on. You started it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuswingman Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 (edited) 2 minutes ago, ledies22 said: You started it missing the point must be your specialty. or just acting dumb because you can't defend your posts trying to silence those who disagree with you. is this you whenever someone posts something you don't agree with? Edited May 3 by iuswingman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maedhros Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 10 minutes ago, iuswingman said: What is stupid is trying to silence posters that don't agree with your opinion. This is a forum and as far as I am aware, we are all allowed to voice our opinion. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledies22 Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 3 minutes ago, iuswingman said: missing the point must be your specialty. or just acting dumb because you can't defend your posts trying to silence those who disagree with you. is this you whenever someone posts something you don't agree with? I’ve stated my point a couple of times. It’s not my issue that you can’t read or comprehend. Nor is it my responsibility to teach you how to do either. If I type it a third, fourth, fifth time. You still wouldn’t understand if you couldn’t get it the first couple. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuswingman Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 Just now, Maedhros said: No, it would be more like "Help help, idiots can't handle opposing opinions" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuswingman Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 1 minute ago, ledies22 said: I’ve stated my point a couple of times. It’s not my issue that you can’t read or comprehend. Nor is it my responsibility to teach you how to do either. If I type it a third, fourth, fifth time. You still wouldn’t understand if you couldn’t get it the first couple. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I'm not the one repeating myself and missing the point of the responses. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledies22 Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 Bluegrass go ahead and delete these posts. I’m done responding to him. But when you do and divvy out your lashings just remember…. He started it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inequality Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 Moving on… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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