IUFLA Posted December 23, 2022 Report Share Posted December 23, 2022 5 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said: 18 minutes ago, MoyeCowbell said: Right now, what elevates JHS and is "hurting" Gunn is pace. JHS has shown a better ability to change pace and pick his moments of explosion, whereas Gunn plays at a higher RPM most of the time (not unlike Troy Williams). Once CJ is able to slow down and be more nuanced, he will be exponentially more effective because he'll be able to adapt to the game as it unfolds. Expand JHS is also most comfortable at PG. He is not a score first guy. I agree, but he was super aggressive offensively coming out of the gate against UNC. Scored our first 7 points and set the tone early for us. I think we need that from whomever to open up things for Trayce, particularly on the road. One of the reasons I'd like to see Bates starting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier4Life53 Posted December 23, 2022 Report Share Posted December 23, 2022 1 hour ago, btownqb said: I don't think he's an extended mins guy at all right now.. there might be 5-6 mins worth of use out of him a game, currently though.. because it does seem he has a tendency to "make shit happen"... He needs to play his role offensively, though. In my original post I said I was ”excited about his potential” 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier987 Posted December 23, 2022 Report Share Posted December 23, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, IUFLA said: One of the reasons I'd like to see Bates starting... Bates is gaining confidence in his offensive game but he’s still a mess defensively. Hopefully he’s in the film room. If we could just combine Trey’s defense and Tamar’s offensive threat we would have a really nice player. Edited December 23, 2022 by Hoosier987 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted December 23, 2022 Report Share Posted December 23, 2022 25 minutes ago, Hoosier4Life53 said: In my original post I said I was ”excited about his potential” I agree with you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted December 23, 2022 Report Share Posted December 23, 2022 2 hours ago, btownqb said: His confidence is fantastic. As is his energy. His length is tremendous as well. But, I don't think he's a good shooter right now.. I don't think he can dribble/go left worth a lick... and I don't want many ppl scoring in the mid range, anyways. He will be mightly pressured during the B1G season when he catches the ball on the perimeter. Plus he fouls the shit out of ppl defensively lol.. first play he gets in the other night he absolutely waps the crap out of his guy and the official missed it. As long as the shot goes in what is wrong with the mid range shot. Analytics is taking away a very important part of the game because you have to guard the whole court instead of just the 3 point line and the basket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWB Posted December 23, 2022 Report Share Posted December 23, 2022 7 minutes ago, IU Scott said: As long as the shot goes in what is wrong with the mid range shot. Analytics is taking away a very important part of the game because you have to guard the whole court instead of just the 3 point line and the basket Agreed. JHS has made a living with the mid-range shot. More so than his 3-pt shot (which seems to be getting better). Most of his mid-range shots have been wide open. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted December 23, 2022 Report Share Posted December 23, 2022 Just now, DWB said: Agreed. JHS has made a living with the mid-range shot. More so than his 3-pt shot (which seems to be getting better). Most of his mid-range shots have been wide open. Calbert Cheaney became the big ten all time leading scorer on the mid range shot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWB Posted December 23, 2022 Report Share Posted December 23, 2022 (edited) Just now, IU Scott said: Calbert Cheaney became the big ten all time leading scorer on the mid range shot. IIRC so did Woody (not all time leading scorer, but had a ton of points with mid-range) Edited December 23, 2022 by DWB 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted December 23, 2022 Report Share Posted December 23, 2022 10 minutes ago, DWB said: IIRC so did Woody (not all time leading scorer, but had a ton of points with mid-range) What I don't understand with the analytic people is that it is supposed to be more efficient. The thing is that scoring is down now compared to when people shot the mid range game. Those Cheaney teams also had Henderson and Anderson who was almost automatic on the 15 foot shot. Those team aberaged over 80 a game and you see very few teams average that now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluegrassIU Posted December 23, 2022 Report Share Posted December 23, 2022 3 hours ago, btownqb said: Plus he fouls the shit out of ppl defensively lol.. Makes for a tough day at work for this poor guy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted December 23, 2022 Report Share Posted December 23, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, DWB said: IIRC so did Woody (not all time leading scorer, but had a ton of points with mid-range) We've found two since 1980 that, along with 2 other NBA 1st rd draft picks, that can score effectively from the mid range. No doubt all 4 score effectively from there... (not that there isn't others, but still).. How does that apply to CJ Gunn? I don't believe he has the ability to shot fake, or break his man down off the dribble in an effective way to get a good mid range jump shot off... So.. if CJ is given offensive opportunities I would prefer he get wide open 3s or put back/cuts to the rim and dunk the ball... I think that is much more in his skillset, currently. ------------ Next, I didn't do a great job in my op to @Hoosier4Life53 when he said mentioned CJs potential. I do agree CJs potential seems to be off the charts.. but he does he have to convert opportunities. Not just look flashy while missing. There are aspects of his game I highly question.. and @MoyeCowbell explained most of them, that I don't think he can play at the pace needed against the B1G level. I don't think he's there ball handling wise. I think he's more raw than some realize because he's at times feasted on poor competition. Anyways, I mentioned there might be an energizer bunny role for him right now.. his activity is good. I truly like him.. and he surely has at least met everyone's expectations so far. Edited December 23, 2022 by btownqb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted December 23, 2022 Report Share Posted December 23, 2022 4 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said: Makes for a tough day at work for this poor guy. Dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted December 23, 2022 Report Share Posted December 23, 2022 The most efficient shot is the one you can make consistently as an individual player. So what if other people suck at it or statistics say you shouldn't take them. If you're good at it then fire away. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted December 23, 2022 Report Share Posted December 23, 2022 1 hour ago, IU Scott said: As long as the shot goes in what is wrong with the mid range shot. Analytics is taking away a very important part of the game because you have to guard the whole court instead of just the 3 point line and the basket Analytics ain't taking away from the game. Coaches that coach purely with analytics are. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted December 23, 2022 Report Share Posted December 23, 2022 3 minutes ago, rico said: Analytics ain't taking away from the game. Coaches that coach purely with analytics are. That is a problem is that coaches go to much on numbers than actually the feel of the game. To me tne best shot is a open shot no matter where you are on the court within reason. I don't want guys shooting 35 footers all the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steubenhoosier Posted December 23, 2022 Report Share Posted December 23, 2022 All I heard the last few years is that we needed more consistent long-range shooters, both to open things up inside for the bigs, as well as to counter other teams who were scoring points by the boatload with their 3 point shooters. Now, we have a young player whose best skill set is what we have been clamoring for, and there's more complaining. A team should be built with players who complement each other. Let each of them play to their skillsets, and not try to make them into things they aren't as proficient in. And yes, CMW was a master in the "kiss" off the board. Knew how to shoot the angles as well as anyone I've ever seen play in a Hoosier uniform. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted December 23, 2022 Report Share Posted December 23, 2022 3 minutes ago, IU Scott said: That is a problem is that coaches go to much on numbers than actually the feel of the game. To me tne best shot is a open shot no matter where you are on the court within reason. I don't want guys shooting 35 footers all the time I like analytics. But I am far from embracing them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steubenhoosier Posted December 23, 2022 Report Share Posted December 23, 2022 3 minutes ago, IU Scott said: That is a problem is that coaches go to much on numbers than actually the feel of the game. To me tne best shot is a open shot no matter where you are on the court within reason. I don't want guys shooting 35 footers all the time Who ever said anything about 35 footers? And frankly, "within reason" is a subjective term. What is within reason for TJD, and Kopp or Bates are two different shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 23, 2022 Report Share Posted December 23, 2022 53 minutes ago, btownqb said: How does that apply to CJ Gunn? I don't believe he has the ability to shot fake, or break his man down off the dribble in an effective way to get a good mid range jump shot off... I'm speaking only of potential...The Johnny Davos we saw a a sophomore was vastly different than the Johnny Davis we saw as a freshman...I've seen CJ shoot a few mid-range shots this year...I'll defer to you on his deficiences as of now, but what I'm saying is with work on his game, he can add mid-range to his repertoire...I'd like us to have a 3 level scorer or two in the coming years... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted December 23, 2022 Report Share Posted December 23, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, IUFLA said: I'm speaking only of potential...The Johnny Davos we saw a a sophomore was vastly different than the Johnny Davis we saw as a freshman...I've seen CJ shoot a few mid-range shots this year...I'll defer to you on his deficiences as of now, but what I'm saying is with work on his game, he can add mid-range to his repertoire...I'd like us to have a 3 level scorer or two in the coming years... At least in high school games I saw Gunn play he was pretty effective on mid range jumpers Edited December 23, 2022 by IU Scott 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted December 23, 2022 Report Share Posted December 23, 2022 1 hour ago, mrflynn03 said: The most efficient shot is the one you can make consistently as an individual player. So what if other people suck at it or statistics say you shouldn't take them. If you're good at it then fire away. You also have to have the ability to get that shot vs. Top tier competition. That's the issue, imo, for CJ. Sure he can hit a pull up on the fast break vs Elon. Looks awesome doing that. That is not the same as running offense, vs a set defense, in the half court, on the road at Michigan... for example... and knocking down a mid range shot after a long close out he broke down. It's just not. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoyeCowbell Posted December 23, 2022 Report Share Posted December 23, 2022 Coach Knight always stressed that his team make plays rather than run plays. It's an understanding of the game, the flow, and what is being presented by the defense. While CJ is young and a bit wild, he does appear willing to learn. I would say that goes for most, if not all, of the team. I'm sure the balance Coach Woodson has now is challenging them to reach this "enlightenment" without removing the fun/joy of playing the game. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted December 23, 2022 Report Share Posted December 23, 2022 Just now, MoyeCowbell said: Coach Knight always stressed that his team make plays rather than run plays. It's an understanding of the game, the flow, and what is being presented by the defense. While CJ is young and a bit wild, he does appear willing to learn. I would say that goes for most, if not all, of the team. I'm sure the balance Coach Woodson has now is challenging them to reach this "enlightenment" without removing the fun/joy of playing the game. To me watching a lot of college ball that coaches don't give the players the flexibility to stray from the offense. It is to regimented to me and it restricts the flow of the offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier4Life53 Posted December 23, 2022 Report Share Posted December 23, 2022 (edited) What I really like about CJ is his athleticism and aggressiveness. His put back dunk the other night may have been the highlight of the year so far. We need more of that, and he seems fearless on the court. Granted, only a small sample against lesser opponents, but I like what I’ve seen so far. Edited December 23, 2022 by Hoosier4Life53 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted December 23, 2022 Report Share Posted December 23, 2022 2 hours ago, IU Scott said: To me watching a lot of college ball that coaches don't give the players the flexibility to stray from the offense. It is to regimented to me and it restricts the flow of the offense. 100% agree. College basketball is so over coached, it’s ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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