HoosierDom Posted February 16, 2023 Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 Hummel is pretty mild in his criticism of officials and I think it's safe to say he does not have a pro-IU bias - off the top of my head, I can think of him questioning a number of calls last night: the lack of a travel, the T on Woodson, the hack on Race that led to a turnover, a missed out of bounds call in the 1st, body contact as TJD went up; the only one he mentioned in our favor was the goal-tend call. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted February 16, 2023 Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 5 minutes ago, HoosierDom said: Hummel is pretty mild in his criticism of officials and I think it's safe to say he does not have a pro-IU bias - off the top of my head, I can think of him questioning a number of calls last night: the lack of a travel, the T on Woodson, the hack on Race that led to a turnover, a missed out of bounds call in the 1st, body contact as TJD went up; the only one he mentioned in our favor was the goal-tend call. He laughed when he heard the refs explanation of the techs because it was so ridiculous. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted February 16, 2023 Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 I will say on the goaltend that was missed - I'm not quite as convinced as everyone else that it was actually missed. They mentioned the cylinder on the replay, but that is for an offensive goaltend. A defensive goaltending, as far as I know and can tell from reading the rulebook, requires the ball to be on its way down. I don't think the ball was on its way down. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maedhros Posted February 16, 2023 Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 9 hours ago, BGleas said: I hear what you're saying. I guess my point is that I agree we played bad in the first half (duh, right? 🤣), but I think a big part of our bad play was due to how the refs were calling things. Do you need to find a way to overcome that? Sure. But geez is that hard when the other team is being allowed to play at a much higher level of aggressiveness. I thought this as well. We were getting tackled in the paint in the first quarter, with no calls. My favorite was when Fino was knocked to the ground, the ball dribbled out, and Geronimo got called for a touch fall on the NW player who picked it up. In the second quarter you could see guys retreat a little bit, and throw up whatever bad shot they felt was close enough. It was bad officiating, and our guys responded poorly. I'm encouraged by the response though, and pleased by the change in attitude and approach to an adverse situation as much as anything else from last night. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inequality Posted February 16, 2023 Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 3 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: I will say on the goaltend that was missed - I'm not quite as convinced as everyone else that it was actually missed. They mentioned the cylinder on the replay, but that is for an offensive goaltend. A defensive goaltending, as far as I know and can tell from reading the rulebook, requires the ball to be on its way down. I don't think the ball was on its way down. Yeah I didn’t think so myself either but I haven’t watched a replay 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artesian_86 Posted February 16, 2023 Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 52 minutes ago, Dawg Bawls said: Can i get a grammar Nazi.... speakin of geeks SMH.....I reacted as I did in your original post was because it came across as if Northwestern is just a school for smart kids with no athletic credibility or ability. I just as mad as anybody else over the loss. Our 1st half play, turnovers and poor officiating was terrible. However, for you to blast them with steriotypes, and name calling is just ridiculous! Despite a number of questionable calls, Northwestern is still a legit team anyway you look at it. We are a legit team too, we just ran out of time... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawg Bawls Posted February 16, 2023 Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Artesian_86 said: SMH.....I reacted as I did in your original post was because it came across as if Northwestern is just a school for smart kids with no athletic credibility or ability. I just as mad as anybody else over the loss. Our 1st half play, turnovers and poor officiating was terrible. However, for you to blast them with steriotypes, and name calling is just ridiculous! Despite a number of questionable calls, Northwestern is still a legit team anyway you look at it. We are a legit team too, we just ran out of time... SMH...it was referring to the students not the players Edited February 16, 2023 by Dawg Bawls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierDom Posted February 16, 2023 Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 22 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: I will say on the goaltend that was missed - I'm not quite as convinced as everyone else that it was actually missed. They mentioned the cylinder on the replay, but that is for an offensive goaltend. A defensive goaltending, as far as I know and can tell from reading the rulebook, requires the ball to be on its way down. I don't think the ball was on its way down. I don't see the rule as saying that. Goaltending requires the ball to be moving down, but basket interference, which can be called on the defensive team, does not. "Basket interference occurs when a player:... touches the ball while any part of it is within the cylinder that has thering as its lower base" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxnJxn Posted February 16, 2023 Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 23 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: I will say on the goaltend that was missed - I'm not quite as convinced as everyone else that it was actually missed. They mentioned the cylinder on the replay, but that is for an offensive goaltend. A defensive goaltending, as far as I know and can tell from reading the rulebook, requires the ball to be on its way down. I don't think the ball was on its way down. That's an interesting point. Here's the rule book info on it and link to it. It doesn't seem to specify defensive or offensive in this section, so I'm guessing these are universal. Sorry about the formatting, but I'm lazy. Section 15. Basket Interference and Goaltending Art. 1. It is a violation to commit basket interference or goaltending. Art. 2. Basket interference. a. Basket interference occurs when a player: 1. Touches the ball or any part of the basket while the ball is on or within the basket. If the touching of the basket involves contact with the net only, the official must determine if the touching had any effect on the ball which would rise to the level of basket interference; 2. Touches the ball while any part of it is within the cylinder that has the ring as its lower base; 3. Reaches through the basket from below and touches the ball before it enters the cylinder; 4. Pulls down a movable ring so that it contacts the ball before the ring returns to its original position; and 5. Causes the basket or backboard to vibrate when the ball is on or within the basket or the backboard and/or is on or in the cylinder. b. The cylinder is the imaginary geometric figure that has the ring as its base and is formed by the upward extension of that ring. c. The ball shall be considered to be within the basket when any part of the ball is below the cylinder and the level of the ring. 92 RULE 9 / Violationsand Penalties d. A player may have a hand legally in contact with the ball, when this contact continues after the ball enters the cylinder or when, during such action, the player touches or grabs the basket. Art. 3. Goaltending. a. Goaltending occurs when a defensive player touches the ball during a field-goal try and each of the following conditions is met: (Exception: Rule 10-4.1.h) 1. The ball is on its downward flight; and 2. The ball is above the level of the ring and has the possibility, while in flight, of entering the basket and is not touching the cylinder. b. It is goaltending to touch the ball outside the cylinder during a free throw, regardless of whether the free throw is on its upward or downward flight. c. When the ball contacts the backboard and any part of the ball is above the rim during a field goal attempt, it is considered to be on its downward flight. In such a case, it is goaltending when the ball is to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierDom Posted February 16, 2023 Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 1 minute ago, AxnJxn said: That's an interesting point. Here's the rule book info on it and link to it. It doesn't seem to specify defensive or offensive in this section, so I'm guessing these are universal. Sorry about the formatting, but I'm lazy. Section 15. Basket Interference and Goaltending Art. 1. It is a violation to commit basket interference or goaltending. Art. 2. Basket interference. a. Basket interference occurs when a player: 1. Touches the ball or any part of the basket while the ball is on or within the basket. If the touching of the basket involves contact with the net only, the official must determine if the touching had any effect on the ball which would rise to the level of basket interference; 2. Touches the ball while any part of it is within the cylinder that has the ring as its lower base; 3. Reaches through the basket from below and touches the ball before it enters the cylinder; 4. Pulls down a movable ring so that it contacts the ball before the ring returns to its original position; and 5. Causes the basket or backboard to vibrate when the ball is on or within the basket or the backboard and/or is on or in the cylinder. b. The cylinder is the imaginary geometric figure that has the ring as its base and is formed by the upward extension of that ring. c. The ball shall be considered to be within the basket when any part of the ball is below the cylinder and the level of the ring. 92 RULE 9 / Violationsand Penalties d. A player may have a hand legally in contact with the ball, when this contact continues after the ball enters the cylinder or when, during such action, the player touches or grabs the basket. Art. 3. Goaltending. a. Goaltending occurs when a defensive player touches the ball during a field-goal try and each of the following conditions is met: (Exception: Rule 10-4.1.h) 1. The ball is on its downward flight; and 2. The ball is above the level of the ring and has the possibility, while in flight, of entering the basket and is not touching the cylinder. b. It is goaltending to touch the ball outside the cylinder during a free throw, regardless of whether the free throw is on its upward or downward flight. c. When the ball contacts the backboard and any part of the ball is above the rim during a field goal attempt, it is considered to be on its downward flight. In such a case, it is goaltending when the ball is to In fact it makes reference to basket interference leading to 2 points, so clearly can be called on the defensive team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted February 16, 2023 Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 6 minutes ago, HoosierDom said: I don't see the rule as saying that. Goaltending requires the ball to be moving down, but basket interference, which can be called on the defensive team, does not. "Basket interference occurs when a player:... touches the ball while any part of it is within the cylinder that has thering as its lower base" I believe that has to happen after a shot though, yeah? Otherwise a dunk would be basket interference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted February 16, 2023 Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 1 minute ago, HoosierDom said: In fact it makes reference to basket interference leading to 2 points, so clearly can be called on the defensive team. Yes, I just interpret that to be a ball coming off of the rim for a rebound, not the shot attempt. Again if it’s on the shot attempt every dunk is basket interference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierDom Posted February 16, 2023 Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 6 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: I believe that has to happen after a shot though, yeah? Otherwise a dunk would be basket interference. Part d deals with that: d� A player may have a hand legally in contact with the ball, when this contact continues after the ball enters the cylinder or when, during such action, the player touches or grabs the basket� 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reacher Posted February 16, 2023 Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 Anyone have a video clip of the phantom foul on the Bates steal or the travel that caused the tech? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxnJxn Posted February 16, 2023 Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Reacher said: Anyone have a video clip of the phantom foul on the Bates steal or the travel that caused the tech? Here’s a good angle/replay of the travel. IMG_4717.MOV I'm not sure if I'm embedding these correctly, so feel free to let me know if there's a better way of doing this. Edited February 16, 2023 by AxnJxn 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted February 16, 2023 Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 1 hour ago, AxnJxn said: Just an FYI for those saying that one play doesn't matter that much, the missed goaltending call was around 15 minutes left in the second half. We had made a small run to start the half, NU had answered back with a 3 to shut it down, their lead was at 17, that bucket would have pushed it to 19. Instead, no call, we get to run out in transition with numbers, JHS hits a 3 to cut it to 14, and the crowd is back into it. C'mon, guys. You know better than to discount momentum in a situation like that. That play was huge for us. As for the first half TOs, first possession, bad pass by TJD, second possession, bad pass by JHS, third possession (I think?) Race gets a block call on what looked like a pretty obvious offensive foul, a few possessions later, JHS loses the dribble with no one around him into the backcourt for a TO, a few possessions later, bad pass by Bates. I mean, I could argue that the phantom foul call on Bates was actually a blessing in disguise because it got him off the court - he was awful in the first half. We had 8 TOs in the first 11 minutes or something like that, and the majority of those weren't from fouls not being called, it was just terrible basketball on our part. There is no team that has ever played a perfect game. As bad as we were in the first half, Northwestern was just as bad in the second. We got a 2 points and momentum off the missed goal tend? They got 4 points and momentum off the BS Techs that should have been Indiana's ball the other direction only down 5. The officiating completely dictated play in the first half. Completely. The team did "overcome" that in the second half. We had matched what Northwestern did to us in the first half in the second. The last play was a charge. It should have been our ball with a few seconds to win or go to OT. If that is a charge when there is plenty of time for a team to overcome the bad call, then it damn sure should be one when it is deciding a game. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted February 16, 2023 Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, AxnJxn said: Here’s a good angle/replay of the travel. IMG_4717.MOV 14.68 MB · 2 downloads Based on that clip, we got a bench technical for yelling travel, doing the travel hand motion, standing up or some combination of the three. You can watch every dude down that bench. The two technicals were complete horse sh*t. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted February 16, 2023 Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 12 minutes ago, HoosierDom said: Part d deals with that: d� A player may have a hand legally in contact with the ball, when this contact continues after the ball enters the cylinder or when, during such action, the player touches or grabs the basket� Ah didn't read that part closely enough, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted February 16, 2023 Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 (edited) Compare and contrast our double technical with the above. Dolson needs to compile a greatest hits and lose his shit over it with the BIG front office. Edited February 16, 2023 by IUCrazy2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 16, 2023 Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 3 hours ago, AxnJxn said: The goaltending was in the second half at a key point in our comeback. I just re-watched the first half, and I’m just not seeing it. One of our early possessions, i thought Race should have been called for an offensive foul and they called it a block. The foul on Bates, admittedly a bad call, was immediately followed by a moving screen call on NU that had to be a make up call. I thought things were called pretty evenly when the infamous travel happened, and we all know what happened after that. I’m not even sure it was a travel - good angle on the replay, his pivot foot didn’t really move, but it tips over on the side of his shoe. Not sure if that’s a travel or not, and then our bench gave away 4 points because they can’t stfu. I did think they missed a couple of fouls on TJD later in the first half, but i also saw a bunch of terrible TOs, bad shot selection, missing multiple wide open 3s (including JHS not even finding rim on one), multiple offensive rebounds given up, and leaving NU absolutely wide open on at least half a dozen 3s that they missed (can anyone explain why we were going under the screens?). IMO, we were very fortunate we weren’t down 30 at the half, and most of that was of our own doing, not the refs. I’m also well aware I’m in the minority with this opinion. My complaint is how the refs allows NW defenders to get into our players space. They have a cylinder re but isn't called very much. Also they hand checked the ball handlers all night 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Robby Posted February 16, 2023 Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 I'm tired of there being no accountability for Big Ten officials. It's dog $h!t every single game, and I'm convinced now more than ever that there is side action (gambling) of some kind. Every single game I've watched this year has had multiple bad calls. No accountability, no evaluations, nothing. I know if I got criticized at my job as much as they do, I'd more than likely lose it. Don't even get me started on techs. Fran can run down both sidelines, but our sleepy assistant wakes up for 3 minutes and gets one? Come on man 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsidehoosier Posted February 16, 2023 Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 Woody's style will be better suited for the NCAA tourney where games will be called more like the SEC than the NFL. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawg Bawls Posted February 16, 2023 Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, Coach Robby said: I'm tired of there being no accountability for Big Ten officials. It's dog $h!t every single game, and I'm convinced now more than ever that there is side action (gambling) of some kind. Every single game I've watched this year has had multiple bad calls. No accountability, no evaluations, nothing. I know if I got criticized at my job as much as they do, I'd more than likely lose it. Don't even get me started on techs. Fran can run down both sidelines, but our sleepy assistant wakes up for 3 minutes and gets one? Come on man And its just not our games ... most the other games ive seen were just as bad.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawg Bawls Posted February 16, 2023 Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, southsidehoosier said: Woody's style will be better suited for the NCAA tourney where games will be called more like the SEC than the NFL. I made the comment last night that they (Northwestern) wont last long in tourney playing like that Edited February 16, 2023 by Dawg Bawls 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxnJxn Posted February 16, 2023 Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 Does anyone know what was actually said for the tech to be called? Because if you don't, you're just assuming things. The clip I posted is before the tech was called, so I'm not sure how anyone can conclude it was right or wrong based on that. I do agree that the McCaffrey duo should have both gotten techs in our game, and that there seem to be inconsistencies with these situations. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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