Transfers with IU Interest

[Danomatic]

This is all I know about the Love situation, according to some familiar with his time at UNC. Love is tremendously talented, but selfish, and not necessarily on the court, but rather as a teammate. He apparently slept with a couple of his teammates girlfriends last summer, fresh off of a big sophomore season. That obviously caused turmoil in the locker room. 
 

My take? Lots of upside, and a change of scenery could catapult him and the program. If he buys what Woody’s selling, the sky is the limit. Last season we wanted multiple threats to be multi-dimensional. He provides us with exactly that. Next year is going to be tough enough trying to gel an uber talented combination of bigs, with a couple of solid upperclassmen guards, mixed with some raw underclassmen. 

[btownqb]

2 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I've watched both, and they share some common, on the court traits...

Poor shot selection

Sub 40% FG percentage (although Green, statistically, was a better 3 point shooter)

1-1 assist to TO ratio

And neither would be mistaken for Gary Payton on the defensive end...

That was the basis for the "Devonte Green 2.0" comment...

My comments were restricted to on the court...

My comments weren't directed at you.

 

And watching D Green and CL, I don't see much similarly to their games...D Green looked like someone that should have played in the MAC and CL avg 15+ at UNC, imo. 

[IUFLA]

10 minutes ago, HoosierDom said:

Compare Love's numbers, particularly his percentages and number of shots taken, to JHS. There are a lot of similarities. JHS shot more 2's and hit them at a lower clip. The only glaring difference is that Love shot roughly 4 more 3's per game and hit them at a slightly lower rate. There true shooting percentages (accounts for the fact that 3's are worth more) are almost identical. Just looking at the numbers, it seems like Love should shoot fewer 3's, but his numbers aren't those of some crazy out of control shooter. He's basically JHS who takes 2 steps back instead of shooting so many mid-ranged shots.

 

8 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Great post man. I thought much of the same. 

Except for the fact you're comparing a college freshman to a guy that just finished his 3rd year of college basketball...

Comparing their freshman seasons paints a vastly different picture...

I'd assume JHS would have progressed greatly in his game at the college level, but we;ll never know...He's off to the NBA...

Edited May 18, 2023 by IUFLA

[btownqb]

10 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

 

Except for the fact you're comparing a college freshman to a guy that just finished hos 3rd year opf college basketball...

Compare their freshman seasons paints a vastly different picture...

I'd assume JHS would have progressed greatly in his game at the college level, but we;ll never know...He's off to the NBA...

Why do we need to compare their FR years to each other?

I don't really see this as good data.

Edited May 18, 2023 by btownqb

[HoosierDom]

13 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

 

Except for the fact you're comparing a college freshman to a guy that just finished his 3rd year of college basketball...

Comparing their freshman seasons paints a vastly different picture...

I'd assume JHS would have progressed greatly in his game at the college level, but we;ll never know...He's off to the NBA...

Would we be getting freshman year Love or senior year Love?

I get why the NBA wants JHS and not Love, and this points, at least somewhat, to that, but I don't think this tells the story of what we would get next year.

[IUProfessor]

It's tantalizing to think about a starting lineup featuring four 5-stars and XJ. From a talent perspective, there wouldn't be too many teams in the country that could match that.

Like others, though, I would worry about chemistry. I also think it's important for the program's long-term trajectory that the staff be able to successfully get Mgbako and Ware into the NBA next year. That would be harder to accomplish while trying to do the same for Love as well. That having been said, if they could turn all three of those guys into first rounders, the recruiting momentum would be off the charts.

Edited May 18, 2023 by IUProfessor

[TN_Hoosier]

My girlfriend lives in Asheville and is a huge UNC fan.  So, we watched IU and UNC games regularly.  The selfishness comments on CL are accurate.  And, often he launched his shots well behind the three point line.  On the other hand, I don't believe CMW would tolerate any player's nonsense!

[Maedhros]

39 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Why do we need to compare their FR years to each other?

I don't really see this as good data.

Without taking sides in the debate, I do think it's worth remembering JHS was a freshman when we compare their seasons. JHS was inefficient and inconsistent in the way that we expect freshman to be, even talented ones. We appreciated when he flashed and didn't worry too much about games where he disappeared, because he was still adjusting to this level and the change in his role after X went down.

Caleb Love coming in as a fourth year senior will face different expectations. If he's performing with the same efficiency as a freshman JHS, while leading the team in usage rate, that's not going to be good enough. We're going to view his season much differently than the season JHS just had.

[Drroogh]

I’m not really sure I know where I stand on this??? One thought comes to mind though about team chemistry with or without CL. Last year TJD and Race were willing to take players to task!!! It wasn’t just the staff! I don’t think we have that this year, so how is that going to work out? Time will tell!

[Danomatic]

1 minute ago, Drroogh said:

I’m not really sure I know where I stand on this??? One thought comes to mind though about team chemistry with or without CL. Last year TJD and Race were willing to take players to task!!! It wasn’t just the staff! I don’t think we have that this year, so how is that going to work out? Time will tell!

Agree with this.

[btownqb]

3 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

Without taking sides in the debate, I do think it's worth remembering JHS was a freshman when we compare their seasons. JHS was inefficient and inconsistent in the way that we expect freshman to be, even talented ones. We appreciated when he flashed and didn't worry too much about games where he disappeared, because he was still adjusting to this level and the change in his role after X went down.

Caleb Love coming in as a fourth year senior will face different expectations. If he's performing with the same efficiency as a freshman JHS, while leading the team in usage rate, that's not going to be good enough. We're going to view his season much differently than the season JHS just had.

Then don't let his usage be that high. 

Edited May 18, 2023 by btownqb

[JABBATHEHOOSIER]

If Coach Woodson is on board then so am I. 

 

[Steubenhoosier]

In regards to the comments about getting players to the NBA next year.

First, the priority should always be on winning championships, and if Love can move the needle to help that cause, he should be considered. Cannot lose focus on the current season by overemphasizing the future.

Second, and I don't follow the NBA closely, but from things I've read, the NBA draft is as much about potential as anything else. If certain players aren't highlighted quite as much due to Love's presence on the team, I would think that any astute NBA GM would evaluate their value in the draft based on that potential, even if their stats may have suffered a little.

[IU Scott]

2 hours ago, DC2345 said:

Basically, from what I've gathered Love didn't like what Woody had to say about his role/fit which led some to believe he really just wants to continue to play the way he did at UNC. Last night I was originally fine with the thought of going after love again but the more I think about it I think this years team is to important to the future of the program to bring in some that could be a complete cancer/chucker if things aren't going their way. 

If that is the case then nothing has changed so I doubt Love would be interested this time around.

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, HoosierDom said:

Compare Love's numbers, particularly his percentages and number of shots taken, to JHS. There are a lot of similarities. JHS shot more 2's and hit them at a lower clip. The only glaring difference is that Love shot roughly 4 more 3's per game and hit them at a slightly lower rate. There true shooting percentages (accounts for the fact that 3's are worth more) are almost identical. Just looking at the numbers, it seems like Love should shoot fewer 3's, but his numbers aren't those of some crazy out of control shooter. He's basically JHS who takes 2 steps back instead of shooting so many mid-ranged shots.

Good callout. JHS and Caleb Love have pretty similar advanced analytics across the board.

I don't think Love would have as high of usage for us as JHS did, which in theory should boost efficiency. 

[Indykev]

1 hour ago, kycarter88 said:

Calling Anthony Leal, line 1

I played golf with Coach Holmes before Leal entered IU. He said leal should have went to a mid major, he'll never play at iu. his assistants also said they would be better the next season without him.  I'll give anthony his credit, he did graduate in 3 years. next season he can be a grad transfer so he can play.

[Indykev]

Why didn't we see these comments about Ware? Hell his coach benched him and called him out for being lazy and not playing hard. No one was bashing him. Its because he committed.

[dgambill]

5 hours ago, IUCrazy2 said:

I prefer we pass on Love.

I prefer Love if he will pass.

[dgambill]

3 hours ago, Between2Halls said:

This is the pic from before. Don’t read into it. Just reminding everyone. 
 

Wow the PR department has come a long ways since the Archie years. That’s an embarrassingly bad promo picture.

Edited May 18, 2023 by dgambill

[IUCrazy2]

2 hours ago, RoadToZion said:

I'm not so sure this is accurate regarding the zoom call. Mainly because we are still interested. I'm pretty sure he was almost ours until Howard promised him something. Unfortunately for him, admissions didnt let him in. Which is kind of hilarious. 

I thought a UNC athlete would be receiving the best education and be dialed in like no other on the academic side......

[Indy1987]

1 hour ago, IUProfessor said:

It's tantalizing to think about a starting lineup featuring four 5-stars and XJ. From a talent perspective, there would be too many teams in the country that could match that.

Like others, though, I would worry about chemistry. I also think it's important for the program's long-term trajectory that the staff be able to successfully get Mgbako and Ware into the NBA next year. That would be harder to accomplish while trying to do the same for Love as well. That having been said, if they could turn all three of those guys into first rounders, the recruiting momentum would be off the charts.

How much Chemistry does the team have now though?  Losing 4 starters then adding at least 6 new faces is gonna take a minute to develop into something as it is. Throwing CL in the mix wouldn't worry me one bit.  Woody knows how to handle egos.

Go Hoosiers!!!

 

[13th&Jackson]

15 minutes ago, Indykev said:

Why didn't we see these comments about Ware? Hell his coach benched him and called him out for being lazy and not playing hard. No one was bashing him. Its because he committed.

Yeah, how many reclamation projects do we want on one team?

[IUCrazy2]

Just now, 13th&Jackson said:

Yeah, how many reclamation projects do we want on one team?

There is also a difference between a guy who is just entering his second year and one entering his fourth.  I have no call obviously but this guy would be a pass from me if I had a vote.

[dgambill]

1 hour ago, btownqb said:

Then don't let his usage be that high. 

Precisely. His usage was high because NC offense was broken. Horribly broken. It wasn’t because he was just chucking shots. He took a lot of bad shots because their offense wasn’t creating shots for the players and as one of the few guys that could create his own shot and an upper class man he was tasked to take those poor shots. 
 

It would behove CL as much as us if he takes fewer shots and becomes more efficient. If he avgs 15 a game for us next year shooting efficiently he will make his mark and have a shot at the nba. If he doesn’t fit or want to fit that mold then of course we will move on. I trust whatever we do. No one wants to win more than coach…no one will be as accountable for bringing him in as coach. If he wants the hard coaching and chance to win he will apply himself. If not he will end up at Memphis etc. 

Edited May 18, 2023 by dgambill

[btownqb]

4 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Precisely. His usage was high because NC offense was broken. Horribly broken. It wasn’t because he was just chucking shots. He took a lot of bad shots because their offense wasn’t creating shots for the players and as one of the few guys that could create his own shot and an upper class man he was tasked to take those poor shots. 
 

It would behove CL as much as us if he takes fewer shots and becomes more efficient. If he avgs 15 a game for us next year shooting efficiently he will make his mark and have a shot at the nba. If he doesn’t fit or want to fit that mold then of course we will move on. I trust whatever we do. No one wants to win more than coach…no one will be as accountable for bringing him in as coach. If he wants the hard coaching and chance to win he will apply himself. If not he will end up at Memphis etc. 

Right. Someone had to take a shot each possession. UNC just doesn't get enough good ones, we saw that when we played them.