Coach Mike Woodson Megathread

[BGleas]

Of all of the reasons that IU basketball is having a bad season, I'd guess Armond Hill is pretty low on that list. 

Seems like there are a lot bigger things to worry about with IU basketball. 

Reminds me of when Whitman was consulting in Year 1 and people started making up that Woodson would only listen to Whitman and nobody else. 

[IU Scott]

If you think this board gets a little over the top but need to look at BTB. They see that Woodson wasn't on his radio show tonight and they are jumping to conclusion he doesn't want to deal with the fans questions. What they forget this happened a month or so ago and found out he was recruiting.

[IowaHoosierFan]

1 hour ago, IUFLA said:

I was going to PM you, but apparently you don't take PMs...

So, I don't really care to do it, either...But I'm also not going to sit idly by while BS becomes the "truth." 

You know, I do get it...we get pounded by our arch rival, and it's frustrating...But the tsunami of emotional tantrums is way beyond the pale...and looking for any and every little way to dig at Mike Woodson, truth be damned, gets to me...

Fairness...If you have something, back it up with facts...

thanks for responding.

[Inequality]

20 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

If you think this board gets a little over the top but need to look at BTB. They see that Woodson wasn't on his radio show tonight and they are jumping to conclusion he doesn't want to deal with the fans questions. What they forget this happened a month or so ago and found out he was recruiting.

Hunter replaced Woodson tonight on the coaches show.

[MoyeCowbell]

42 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

At least I try to do something about the problem instead of just bitching about it on a message board.

I try not to bitch on message boards. I leave that for my local knitting group.

I once got so heated I put a 'gosh' in front of a 'darn', I kid you not.

[NCHoosier32]

3 hours ago, spe317 said:

Not trying to derail but on the topic of player development…would JHS developed into what he did if X doesn’t have the injury? I feel like you could say CMW was forced to have JHS develop in methods outside of his preferred. 

have been saying this over and over

[NCHoosier32]

3 hours ago, Kdug said:

I hope you’re right. As to your NBA question, Kel’el has absolutely shown he’s ready for the NBA, and I’d expect him to be a 1st rounder. He’s answered a lot of the questions around him coming into the year, and I’d be shocked if he’s in college next year.

And I do give Woodson credit for the first two years. All things considered they were solid seasons. But a GM of a pro team, and AD’s of college teams, should always be looking forward. So to me the question isn’t were his first two years good, but the question is will the next two years be good. Imo there’s a lot of negative trends that make me doubt they will be.

 

 

Ware and Mtaco will not be in IU uniforms next season.

[Indykev]

1 hour ago, NCHoosier32 said:

Ware and Mtaco will not be in IU uniforms next season.

not to derail a great thread but that number is going to be 7 maybe 8, i'm going with that. only 1 signed. going to be a busy summer for someone.

[Indykev]

Just now, Indykev said:

not to derail a great thread but that number is going to be 7 maybe 8, i'm going with that. only 1 signed. going to be a busy summer for someone.

if a coaching change, could be 10. i like talking to myself.

[OGIUAndy]

I agree with Derek. Some people's mindset is they are done with Woody after 2.5 years. Seen enough, you can't fire him fast enough. Same people think they are good fans because they don't accept mediocrity. But to have a great program, you have to have a great coach and great players. But what really good coaches or players (without real strong ties to IU) read that stuff/hear this noise and want to come to IU (when they can go anywhere)? You can count on two hands the programs that make the tournament every year. IU isn't one of them and hasn't been for 20 years. That is the reality. No amount of social media trolling or forum complaining is going to change that. The best way for IU to get better players and coaches in the future is for Woody to do as well as possible while he is in the position. If the fans run him out the door after one bad season, that is not helping the program. If this year ends bad and next year is also bad then this issue will take care of itself. The fans don't need to push the issue. Our job is to support the team so players and coaches will want to come to IU.  Furthermore, this team goes into the year as a bubble team at best. Four new starters. We are locked in with two games with Purdue. We had no chance against Purdue this year. They are up and we are down. Plus, we kicked their a** last year (so they are not looking past us). We have injuries, they don't. We have the last two years NC teams plus Auburn. Last year we had Kansas & Xavier on the road. Plus UNC and Arizona. Very few top programs schedule like that. We schedule like a top 10 program. Only go after top recruits like a top 10 program. But have been a bottom half of the conference team (except last year). We probably need to adjust our ego a bit. 

Also:

IU Fans (in the off season) We have to play multiple marquee games in non-con because we are Indiana. It is great that we are. Crean was a fill in the blank because he didn't.  I love the schedule. I can't wait until we add Kentucky too.

IU Fans (during season): We have to fire the coach because he gets blown out too much.  

IU has already played 4 games against top 5 opponents. Other teams: 

Houston - 0
Purdue - 1
UConn - 0
Arizona - 0
Auburn - 0
Tenn - 1
UNC - 1
Iowa State - 1
Marquette - 1

Only top 10 teams to beat a top 5 opponent: Purdue & Iowa State

Let's bring this back to reality a bit. 

#WoodyQuitPlayingWeirdLineups #GetGuardsThatCanShoot #GoHoosiers

[IUCrazy2]

5 hours ago, OGIUAndy said:

I agree with Derek. Some people's mindset is they are done with Woody after 2.5 years. Seen enough, you can't fire him fast enough. Same people think they are good fans because they don't accept mediocrity. But to have a great program, you have to have a great coach and great players. But what really good coaches or players (without real strong ties to IU) read that stuff/hear this noise and want to come to IU (when they can go anywhere)? You can count on two hands the programs that make the tournament every year. IU isn't one of them and hasn't been for 20 years. That is the reality. No amount of social media trolling or forum complaining is going to change that. The best way for IU to get better players and coaches in the future is for Woody to do as well as possible while he is in the position. If the fans run him out the door after one bad season, that is not helping the program. If this year ends bad and next year is also bad then this issue will take care of itself. The fans don't need to push the issue. Our job is to support the team so players and coaches will want to come to IU.  Furthermore, this team goes into the year as a bubble team at best. Four new starters. We are locked in with two games with Purdue. We had no chance against Purdue this year. They are up and we are down. Plus, we kicked their a** last year (so they are not looking past us). We have injuries, they don't. We have the last two years NC teams plus Auburn. Last year we had Kansas & Xavier on the road. Plus UNC and Arizona. Very few top programs schedule like that. We schedule like a top 10 program. Only go after top recruits like a top 10 program. But have been a bottom half of the conference team (except last year). We probably need to adjust our ego a bit. 

Also:

IU Fans (in the off season) We have to play multiple marquee games in non-con because we are Indiana. It is great that we are. Crean was a fill in the blank because he didn't.  I love the schedule. I can't wait until we add Kentucky too.

IU Fans (during season): We have to fire the coach because he gets blown out too much.  

IU has already played 4 games against top 5 opponents. Other teams: 

Houston - 0
Purdue - 1
UConn - 0
Arizona - 0
Auburn - 0
Tenn - 1
UNC - 1
Iowa State - 1
Marquette - 1

Only top 10 teams to beat a top 5 opponent: Purdue & Iowa State

Let's bring this back to reality a bit. 

#WoodyQuitPlayingWeirdLineups #GetGuardsThatCanShoot #GoHoosiers

I don't have enough time to truly address this at the moment, but I swear to everything that is good and holy that I hope all the "you fans suck and are the reason we can't win" people would get the support that truly means.  If everyone at the school and around the program has bought into the idea that this program is Minnesota and should be treated like it, then that means it should get a bunch more indifference from the fans as opposed to the ungodly amount of support and money it receives in contrast to the wins and entertainment it delivers.

Things that let people like Derek Elston have a podcast because lord knows guys like him don't at the type of program he wants Indiana to apparently be.

[HMSHoosier]

6 hours ago, Indykev said:

not to derail a great thread but that number is going to be 7 maybe 8, i'm going with that. only 1 signed. going to be a busy summer for someone.

Is this something you want or do you have info no one else has?  8 new players came in this year, why would anyone want that much roster turnover every year? You will never get any consistently replacing that many players a year!

That's one thing I've noticed on here. Some of the same ones on here wanting the Coach fired are also wanting all the players gone, it just doesn't add up to me. Which is it the players or the coach or do we just want to keep starting from scratch every year? There will never be any stability if we keep overhauling every 3-4 years. 

[IUCrazy2]

22 minutes ago, HMSHoosier said:

Is this something you want or do you have info no one else has?  8 new players came in this year, why would anyone want that much roster turnover every year? You will never get any consistently replacing that many players a year!

That's one thing I've noticed on here. Some of the same ones on here wanting the Coach fired are also wanting all the players gone, it just doesn't add up to me. Which is it the players or the coach or do we just want to keep starting from scratch every year? There will never be any stability if we keep overhauling every 3-4 years. 

I don't know if you want it but I won't be surprised if you get it.  You have 2 guys that think they are pros now.  Several graduating and several who are going into their third year who just heard their coach say, "We need to go get some guys" after their last loss.  If I am Gunn and Banks I hear that loud and clear and I am out.

[IUrocker]

Welp, I can tell I think about this topic too much haha: 

last night had a dream that I was at Assembly Hall and we played against ISU. When Schertz walked out onto the floor from the tunnel our crowd stood up and gave him a roaring ovation lol. Then they beat us and as he walked off, our crowd cheered for him again and he waved at the crowd with a big smile. Someone in the seats by me went “that’s the guy a lot of people hope will be our next coach.” 
 

when I woke up I kinda chuckled and couldn’t believe I just had a dream like that ha. 

 

Edited February 13 by IUrocker

[btownqb]

6 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

I don't know if you want it but I won't be surprised if you get it.  You have 2 guys that think they are pros now.  Several graduating and several who are going into their third year who just heard their coach say, "We need to go get some guys" after their last loss.  If I am Gunn and Banks I hear that loud and clear and I am out.

Thats a great start! 

 

34 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

I don't have enough time to truly address this at the moment, but I swear to everything that is good and holy that I hope all the "you fans suck and are the reason we can't win" people would get the support that truly means.  If everyone at the school and around the program has bought into the idea that this program is Minnesota and should be treated like it, then that means it should get a bunch more indifference from the fans as opposed to the ungodly amount of support and money it receives in contrast to the wins and entertainment it delivers.

Things that let people like Derek Elston have a podcast because lord knows guys like him don't at the type of program he wants Indiana to apparently be.

What in the world does the bold mean? 

[IUCrazy2]

6 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Thats a great start! 

 

What in the world does the bold mean? 

There is an entire cottage industry built up around Indiana basketball that only exists at like a handful of places.  Do you see players from Minnesota who played over a decade ago on a podcast with a teammate talking about what Minnesota needs to do?  Who is the Northwestern Todd Leary?  Jim Coyle?  Where is the equivalent to this site, BTB, Peegs, and Rivals fan support for Penn State basketball?  

My point is that all the people that come out of the woodwork complaining about the fans being toxic have no voice if they actually got the fan support they want.  There are about 40,000 people that have showed up for decades and cheered on Indiana football and that hasn't helped a damn thing.  And next to no one talks about it because people who aren't invested don't care 

[Inequality]

Woodson shouldn’t have been put in the head coach position in the first place. Someone in the admin knew he was lacking or they wouldn’t have created a new position to put Matta in to oversee and guide him.

[btownqb]

11 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

There is an entire cottage industry built up around Indiana basketball that only exists at like a handful of places.  Do you see players from Minnesota who played over a decade ago on a podcast with a teammate talking about what Minnesota needs to do?  Who is the Northwestern Todd Leary?  Jim Coyle?  Where is the equivalent to this site, BTB, Peegs, and Rivals fan support for Penn State basketball?  

My point is that all the people that come out of the woodwork complaining about the fans being toxic have no voice if they actually got the fan support they want.  There are about 40,000 people that have showed up for decades and cheered on Indiana football and that hasn't helped a damn thing.  And next to no one talks about it because people who aren't invested don't care 

"Don't at the type of program  he apparently wants our program to be"

Idk what that means 

 

Don't exist and you left that word out? 

[Hoosier987]

Woodson’s comment about adding pieces is right. He has to after this lousy year (coaching included). Gunn and Banks really have no choice…they most likely will be gone, whether they transfer on their own, or are nudged out….and that’s a step in the right direction for a roster overhaul.

Edited February 13 by Hoosier987

[13th&Jackson]

6 hours ago, OGIUAndy said:

I agree with Derek. Some people's mindset is they are done with Woody after 2.5 years. Seen enough, you can't fire him fast enough. Same people think they are good fans because they don't accept mediocrity. But to have a great program, you have to have a great coach and great players. But what really good coaches or players (without real strong ties to IU) read that stuff/hear this noise and want to come to IU (when they can go anywhere)? You can count on two hands the programs that make the tournament every year. IU isn't one of them and hasn't been for 20 years. That is the reality. No amount of social media trolling or forum complaining is going to change that. The best way for IU to get better players and coaches in the future is for Woody to do as well as possible while he is in the position. If the fans run him out the door after one bad season, that is not helping the program. If this year ends bad and next year is also bad then this issue will take care of itself. The fans don't need to push the issue. Our job is to support the team so players and coaches will want to come to IU.  Furthermore, this team goes into the year as a bubble team at best. Four new starters. We are locked in with two games with Purdue. We had no chance against Purdue this year. They are up and we are down. Plus, we kicked their a** last year (so they are not looking past us). We have injuries, they don't. We have the last two years NC teams plus Auburn. Last year we had Kansas & Xavier on the road. Plus UNC and Arizona. Very few top programs schedule like that. We schedule like a top 10 program. Only go after top recruits like a top 10 program. But have been a bottom half of the conference team (except last year). We probably need to adjust our ego a bit. 

Also:

IU Fans (in the off season) We have to play multiple marquee games in non-con because we are Indiana. It is great that we are. Crean was a fill in the blank because he didn't.  I love the schedule. I can't wait until we add Kentucky too.

IU Fans (during season): We have to fire the coach because he gets blown out too much.  

IU has already played 4 games against top 5 opponents. Other teams: 

Houston - 0
Purdue - 1
UConn - 0
Arizona - 0
Auburn - 0
Tenn - 1
UNC - 1
Iowa State - 1
Marquette - 1

Only top 10 teams to beat a top 5 opponent: Purdue & Iowa State

Let's bring this back to reality a bit. 

#WoodyQuitPlayingWeirdLineups #GetGuardsThatCanShoot #GoHoosiers

Totally agree. In 2005, the Alabama fans and administration should have accepted that Bear Bryant wasn’t walking through the door. They’d never be more than mediocre again.
 

In 2021, after Texas football went 12 years averaging 7 wins, the fans and administration should have accepted that they’ve been passed by TCU, Baylor and TX Tech, despite having their own tv network and more money than any program not called Ohio St

Edited February 13 by 13th&Jackson

[IUCrazy2]

12 minutes ago, Hoosier987 said:

Woodson’s comment about adding pieces is right. He has to after this lousy year (coaching included). Gunn and Banks really have no choice…they most likely will be gone, whether they transfer on their own, or are nudged out….and that’s a step in the right direction for a roster overhaul.

Just so I am clear, I need to be patient with a coach who is going to turn 66 next month that is going to have to do another complete roster overhaul in year 4.  A coach who after 3 years has 1, 1 incoming freshman committed to join his program.  Can someone explain to me how this isn't basically starting over from scratch and then explain to me why it is somehow better to completely hit reset on year 4 of a 66 year old coach then it is to just go get another guy who actually has time to build a program?

Seriously, Woodson is looking at an almost complete roster overhaul and he has to reboot the system (or lack thereof) that he has been implementing for the past 3 years.  And then we have year one type of discussions all over again next year.  "Well, I have 8 new guys that we need to get playing together.  I just need to get them over the hump...."

And really, I am dumb for thinking it matters.  Everything about Indiana has been inept for most of my adult life.  Elston is probably right, I need to break the habit I developed as a child of being invested in this stuff and just start treating it like IU football has been for me.  Catch it when you can and when they suck, oh well....

[Inequality]

[IUCrazy2]

48 minutes ago, btownqb said:

"Don't at the type of program  he apparently wants our program to be"

Idk what that means 

 

Don't exist and you left that word out? 

They don't exist basically yes, or they don't exist in near the same numbers.

Basically it boils down to this:  Indiana as an institution continues to make bad decisions and they have done that for basically my entire adult life.  Bob Knight was fired my senior year at IU.  Almost 25 years later I am being told by a bit player on a decade old team who played for a guy who was 3 coaches ago that I just need to accept that this program isn't going to be good anymore.  So I am saying, "OK, fine.  However, here is what that means..."  Pick random dude from the IU football team from the early 2010's.  I am not walking across the street to hear his opinion about IU football because the program hasn't done enough to make me care about talking about that much, let alone listen to anyone about it.  You don't pay multi-million dollar buyouts to get new coaches when you just accept that we are mediocre.  You keep Archie Miller.  You don't fill stadiums with crowds to follow a mediocre team.  You get the 10,000 diehards who are just happy to be there and a few thousand others looking for an event who got a deal on tickets.  Basically the basketball version of Memorial Stadium in the fall.  You don't have 1 million people on Twitter talking about your program.  You have a third of that, if you are lucky.  You don't have people willing to pony up to give 18 year old kids 6 figure salaries.  You don't have a huge media presence touting how "awesome" you are every summer.

If I need to accept that we are just a bunch of mediocre losers then I hope that the University and the cottage industry mouthpieces for that actually get to experience what that means.

TL/DR - In the program Elston is painting a picture of, nobody hears his opinion because half the fans barely remeber who the ---- he is, let alone give a rat's hind end about his opinion.

[NotIThatLives]

52 minutes ago, Courtsensetwo said:

Michael deserves another year, and I’m confident he’ll be on the bench when next season begins. He’s earned that. I’m also confident that Scott is attuned to the concerns of fans, and he’s shown a willingness to move on coaches when the time is right. When that time arrives, he’ll act, and he continues to enjoy my full support.

Tell us you're a Dolson staffer without telling us you're a Dolson staffer.  

We need Intel, tidbits, scoop.  Real inside information that someone in your position would have.  Like, who's on Dolson's short list?  Who has he already been in contact with through the good ole back channels. 

[13th&Jackson]

15 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

TL/DR - In the program Elston is painting a picture of, nobody hears his opinion because half the fans barely remeber who the ---- he is, let alone give a rat's hind end about his opinion.

I'm not taking a shot here, but just being honest. This is the only on court memory I have of Derek Elston: