Coach Mike Woodson Megathread

[DunkinDipo]

10 minutes ago, kyhoosier29 said:

In all honesty, unless we snag some portal “shooters” Tucker doesn’t move the needle much. We need Tucker plus a few more. 

I agree. He may very well end up being a fantastic player but his weakness is his handles and he isn't really a 3 point shooter. So how much will he really help this team if we still can't make 3's?

[kyhoosier29]

1 minute ago, bluegrassIU said:

Top 20 level player absolutely moves the needle. If your point is this has to be a starting point, I agree. But I disagree that this level of talent doesn't move the needle.

 

We had a top 20 player just leave for the draft. So, a good start adding a quality player, but he’s not KW and he doesn’t shoot the 3 for a high percentage. Which means we’re not as good, definitely not better than we were last year… yet. So a start, but a LOT more needs to be done.  So worth being excited about? Yes. But doesn’t quite move the needle much for me yet. Sticking to my comment. 👍

[bluegrassIU]

6 minutes ago, kyhoosier29 said:

We had a top 20 player just leave for the draft. So, a good start adding a quality player, but he’s not KW and he doesn’t shoot the 3 for a high percentage. Which means we’re not as good, definitely not better than we were last year… yet. So a start, but a LOT more needs to be done.  So worth being excited about? Yes. But doesn’t quite move the needle much for me yet. Sticking to my comment. 👍

You are not allowed to stick to you comment because I presented an opposing viewpoint. 

It's in HSN bylaws. Section 62, paragraph 7. Sorry.

[WRSMick55]

With 6 spots still open, yes indeed, we are not as good as we were last year. I remain skeptical, but let’s see who he convinces to come and fill those spots. Still plenty of opportunity to bring in those shooters. Would love to see a stud guard come in. Like I said, skeptical they can convince the players we need to actually come but they THIS IS A GOOD START.

[Common Sense]

I'm hoping for a Hubert Davis type turnaround.  

[ForHumanity]

2 hours ago, Tom White said:

Some folks are just one trick ponies.

Some people can't even find the pony.

[Tom White]

38 minutes ago, ForHumanity said:

Some people can't even find the pony.

That's because they haven't shoveled enough of the manure out of the way.

[ForHumanity]

2 hours ago, ledies22 said:

Dont even know what you're referring to hopeium. No one is shooting rainbows and sunshine up peoples asses here. It the opposite.

Yes history says 2/3 tourney appearances. Over blown...!? the only thing over blown is that IU is a catastrophe. 

If you cant get a little hyped up about bryson committing, I dont know what to tell you, but there is no hope. Not for IU, but for you.

Congrats to enjoying mediocrity. We needed a play in game to make it, then get blown out in the first round. It's ok, if just getting to the dance satisfies you that's fine. Welcome to the Stetson, Yale and the Longwood fanbase type.

Over blown Catastrophe: How many teams do you know that has ZERO recruits coming in next year on any team in the nation? We are in the wrong era when it comes to offense. How many ranked teams did we beat this past year with our 5-stars?

I don't get hyped up on names, I get hyped up on results. We have had little of that. 

Bringing in a lot of players who never played together...chemistry will be key.

I never said I did not have hope. However, with this coach, I have no trust in him.

Let's see how he puts it together. But nothing really matters until results are on the floor next year. 

[MrsStoller]

6 hours ago, Tom White said:

But is he? According to state law, no state university can receive state funds for use in support of the athletic program. You can then conclude his salary is paid by funds generated by the athletic department itself, including sales revenues (tickets, merchandise, network broadcast fees, etc.) and donations raised by the department.

I think you can interpret from that he is an employee of the university, but not an employee of the state. Anyone being upset thinking he is paid by your tax dollars can breathe a sigh of relief, because that isn't happening.

I guess I assumed he was just from news reports over the years “highest paid employee” etc. Didn’t realize the state law prohibiting state funds from going to athletic depts, but makes sense. Thank you for that info
 

I wasn’t upset by it, just referring to it as one of the myriad of reasons I think he needs to go (as in, salary isn’t matching expectations).

[IU247]

 

[Hoosier4Life53]

For all the “sky is falling” crowd, MgBako is back. Now, if we don’t go out and lock up a couple of elite shooters to go along with MM, MR and BT, then I’ll be the first to say CMW needs to go.

 

[IowaHoosierFan]

7 hours ago, Hoosier4Life53 said:

For all the “sky is falling” crowd, MgBako is back. Now, if we don’t go out and lock up a couple of elite shooters to go along with MM, MR and BT, then I’ll be the first to say CMW needs to go.

 

My fear with all these portal guys is that it's going to take to long for the team to gel and find their feet and we're going to be very inconstant all year similar to this year. 

We're always the most confident in the off season. We're world beaters. We have the making of a final 4 team, going to be top 25 and no one in the b1g is as talented at any position as IU. No reason we can't be top 3. The talking heads will pick us 10th and we'll bitch about it all off season. Only to prove they know a little about basketball. 

I am happy we have players coming back. I am happy we have a '24 recruit finally. I will be happy to get some actual shooters hopefully.  But I am not getting my hopes up. No more. Prove it over the first half of the season. Dominate the bad team and compete with the good ones. 

Edited March 31 by IowaHoosierFan

[Dawg Bawls]

On 3/28/2024 at 4:59 PM, ForHumanity said:

Some people can't even find the pony.

Theres a pony?

[DWB]

5 minutes ago, Dawg Bawls said:

Theres a pony?

I certainly saw the "remnants" of a pony, or an entire herd of horses this past season. Had several thorough-breds but they under performed, save 1.

I can't even imagine how bad we'll be next season if Woodson doesn't completely change his offensive playbook. He can recruit all the 5 stars he wants, but if he can't create an offensive & defensive strategy to maximize the teams talent, then we waste a ton of talent.

 

[Andy06]

The biggest issue I see, outside of needing to fill nearly an entire roster with late commits and portal guys, is style of play.

If you have watched virtually any game in the tournament you see excellent ball movement and lots of shooters and a few guys that can create shots for themselves and others.

Nothing in Woodson's three seasons have shown anything on offense that leads you to think something like that is possible with him at IU.

The ball sticks constantly, there is very little movement from guys without the ball. It's boring to watch and ineffective in the current landscape of college basketball. 

[Dawg Bawls]

8 minutes ago, DWB said:

I certainly saw the "remnants" of a pony, or an entire herd of horses this past season. Had several thorough-breds but they under performed, save 1.

I can't even imagine how bad we'll be next season if Woodson doesn't completely change his offensive playbook. He can recruit all the 5 stars he wants, but if he can't create an offensive & defensive strategy to maximize the teams talent, then we waste a ton of talent.

 

Wouldn't mind seeing Brad Brownell

Edited March 31 by Dawg Bawls

[Sea Turtle]

I don't think Indiiana really knows what to do. I guess they are hoping Woodson makes the tourney next year and retires. 

It's been so long since they have had a non dysfunctional program(including the last several years of Knight)that they don't even know what to look for or what it looks like. 

[13th&Jackson]

Bump for CMW discussions since he isn’t being fired

[BADGERVOL]

On 2/16/2024 at 11:58 AM, Maedhros said:

I think it's very easy to make the case Woodson was showing steady progress until this year. I wouldn't call Woodson's first two years Great either, but they were better than what came before. Last season was about as good as we've had post-Knight, excepting only the Sampson years and Crean's two peaks. I had fun, warts and all. This is college, you're always going to have warts. I think what Woodson accomplished his first two years earned him a fourth, even as bad as the third has been. You make it clear this season can't happen again, and then - even if next year is another Good season - if you don't have clear and definitive reasons to think we're back on the track to contention I'm fine cutting loose at that time.

Coaches have bad years, where the roster doesn't come together. Look at Painter's years 8-9. Look at Musselman this year. Or Mick Cronin. Like a player having a sophomore slump, you don't cut a coach loose after one bad season. Even at Indiana, allow coaches an opportunity to learn and grow on the job. Give him a chance to right the ship. If he can't, then you'll know.

That all said, I actually don't think Woodson turns this around, and I don't think he ever delivers Great years. To me the big flashing warning sign is the recruiting. The five-stars are wonderful, but there hasn't been near enough four-star talent brought in to round out the roster and provide continuity. Some of that feels by design, which means it could be correctable, but time is vanishingly short. 

I want Woodson to succeed, because he's the head basketball coach at Indiana, and I want Indiana Basketball to succeed. If next year Indiana Basketball succeeds with someone else at the helm, that'll be more than fine by me. 

I think your post is incredibly reasonable and rational. The only part that I would add to it that I think changes things is not that he had a bad year, it was the way in which it WAS bad. Sticking to his guns when it isn’t working and demonstrating a style of basketball that anyone with a basketball IQ knows won’t work longterm but he is clearly not going to change, makes it different IMO. Add in that he throws the players under the bus proves he isn’t changing a dang thing. He knows he’s right.

Well if Dolson doesn’t think he’s right he should be fine because the bad that can come this season with his stubbornness couod burn IU in many ways 

[DWB]

'24-'25 season may be a catch 22 for Woodson.

If he insists on playing inside out with MR at the 5,  the "out" will never happen. Cause Ware isn't on the roster for MR to throw the ball to. MR rarely if at all, passed the ball out to shooters. MM's points came from passes from Gallo, Leal, and X.

With a significant overhaul to the roster, it almost demands that he change the offense. And yet the past 3 years show that he won't. Ware had a decent outside game, and yet Woodson still refused to play 4 out, much less 5 out. Still had 2 bigs clogging up the middle with a cutter coming thru just to muck it up even more.

Hence the catch 22.

[tdhoosier]

36 minutes ago, DWB said:

'24-'25 season may be a catch 22 for Woodson.

If he insists on playing inside out with MR at the 5,  the "out" will never happen. Cause Ware isn't on the roster for MR to throw the ball to. MR rarely if at all, passed the ball out to shooters. MM's points came from passes from Gallo, Leal, and X.

With a significant overhaul to the roster, it almost demands that he change the offense. And yet the past 3 years show that he won't. Ware had a decent outside game, and yet Woodson still refused to play 4 out, much less 5 out. Still had 2 bigs clogging up the middle with a cutter coming thru just to muck it up even more.

Hence the catch 22.

In TJD’s last year there was a noticeable difference in how long he held the ball for in the post. He shot it, made his move or passed it much quicker (in comparison to previous years). He was quicker to recognize the doubles and got the ball out sometimes before they even came - which kept the opposing defense more off balance.

I don’t know if Malik can do that, is told to do that or will learn to do it….but I hope he does. 

There is a difference between giving Malik a touch and playing inside/outside. He needs his touches, but he has to keep the ball moving or we become too easy to defend. 

Edited April 1 by tdhoosier

[jefftheref]

On 2/16/2024 at 12:58 PM, Maedhros said:

I think it's very easy to make the case Woodson was showing steady progress until this year. I wouldn't call Woodson's first two years Great either, but they were better than what came before. Last season was about as good as we've had post-Knight, excepting only the Sampson years and Crean's two peaks. I had fun, warts and all. This is college, you're always going to have warts. I think what Woodson accomplished his first two years earned him a fourth, even as bad as the third has been. You make it clear this season can't happen again, and then - even if next year is another Good season - if you don't have clear and definitive reasons to think we're back on the track to contention I'm fine cutting loose at that time.

Coaches have bad years, where the roster doesn't come together. Look at Painter's years 8-9. Look at Musselman this year. Or Mick Cronin. Like a player having a sophomore slump, you don't cut a coach loose after one bad season. Even at Indiana, allow coaches an opportunity to learn and grow on the job. Give him a chance to right the ship. If he can't, then you'll know.

That all said, I actually don't think Woodson turns this around, and I don't think he ever delivers Great years. To me the big flashing warning sign is the recruiting. The five-stars are wonderful, but there hasn't been near enough four-star talent brought in to round out the roster and provide continuity. Some of that feels by design, which means it could be correctable, but time is vanishingly short. 

I want Woodson to succeed, because he's the head basketball coach at Indiana, and I want Indiana Basketball to succeed. If next year Indiana Basketball succeeds with someone else at the helm, that'll be more than fine by me. 

Good coaches have bad years. Woodson is mediocre at best and if it wasn't for his buddies he would never of been hired and certainly would of been fired. Absolute disaster for this program and I can't wait until the mor?? is gone!

[Indykev]

3 canceled visits, might be time to fire up this thread again. Lets see here in a week.

[MrsStoller]

Wait what did I miss - did a recruit cancel a visit today? I’ve been busy in the home project thread 🤣.

[Muddy River]

On 3/30/2024 at 2:01 PM, Hoosier4Life53 said:

then I’ll be the first to say CMW needs to go.

 

Actually, that line is already pretty long, and we will kindly ask you to take your spot at the end or it….there are no cuts at HSN.